The real reason Europe thinks we're nuts (1028 hits)
Category: NoneRating: 0.09 on 20 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by Cuberat (View user info) at 2004-11-08 16:06:15 EST
http://www.ubersite.com/cgi-bin/message_get.cgi?message=1099922256167518651
I almost wrote a really long -2 review of the above post, but it got too long so I'm posting it here. (I should warn you this is long).
Ok. Here goes.
I have to agree with one part of this post, so I will get it out of the way first. The whole situation with Islam/the Arabs vs. Isreal/the Jews is really messed up. If the Arab countries would allow Isreal the right to exist, and the Jews to have their country, this would solve all of the fighting in the middle east.
Inevitably someone will ask: "What about the Palestinians?"
To this I say: There is all of this support for them from Muslim nations, right?
And most of those nations are in the region where the Palestinians are, right?
So why dont these nations take them in if they like them so much? Doesn't there Koran have something in there about taking in those in need? Or better yet, why dont the Arab nations give up some land to the Palestinians? Insted of trying to steal land from the tiny, resource barren nation of Isreal, why dont the Saudis, Syrians, Lebanese, Kuwaitis, Iranians, etc. give up some of their OIL-RICH land to these displaced people? Basically, the world should stop despising Islam when the Muslims learn to accept everyone else and stop being hypocrits. Now, Im not saying that Americans or any one else for that matter are not hypocrits for certain things, but what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
I must disagree with the other 90% of this post. Here's why:
Europe doesn't hate the U.S. for being the last superpower. Hell, historically we have always bailed them out, and they know if it came down to it would probably would again. Having a superpower like us around is good for them. We wasted all our time and money policing the world, and they can concintrate on beating us in the economic, scientific and humanitarian realms.
Europe disagrees with the U.S. for the same reason I disagree with the people who are conservative-right-wing-republicans:
These people need to get off their moral high horse and get the stick out of their ass.
Think about why people are right-wing, conservative, republicans. Then look past the bullshit, smoke and mirrors reasons and delve into the deeper reasons. It all boils down to three things:
Ignorance: Many republicans are from rual areas. If you look at the map of what states went for who in the election, you will see more major cities in the "blue" states than the "red" ones. Now think about how things are in small towns and rual areas of the south and midwest. People don't usually know as much about the outside world, these people don't travel much, they dont know many (if any) people from outside their little "comfort zone". They also tend to be less educated and faith based. Fundamentalist faith based. This leads to ignorance.
Hate: Ignorance breeds hate. People fear what they do not understand or what is different from them. Add to this the conservatives who just plain are hateful and backwards. Combine the ignorance and hate and you have the reason why the republicans are against things like Homosexual Rights, Abortion (i.e. - power to choose the destiny of another life in the hands of a woman), etc.
Greed: It has been said many times that the success of the republicans depends on the ability of a few rich people to convince the common people that some day they could be rich too. Think about how many people you know grow up to be millionaires. Hell, how many millionaires do you PERSONALLY KNOW? It rarely happens. Under republican regimes, the rich get richer at the expense of the common people. Bush's tax cuts give more back to the rich. You can argue the theory and ideology all you want, there is no explaining away the fact that the guy making six or seven figures will save more under the tax cut than somebody making much much less. Additionally, you cant look past the Bush family dealings with the Saudis and the Chaney connection to Halliburton and other ventures. There is just too close a connection between these things and going to war to set up a new regime in an oil rich country like Iraq.
I would venture to say that Europe is in some ways a more free society than the U.S. After centuries of killing each other over greed and religion, Europe is almost united. With the exception of small situations (i.e. - the Balkans, Kosovo, the former Yugoslavia, etc.) nobody is killing each other over religion in Europe. Add to that the fact that there is less racism and more acceptance of others, and further that there hasnt been a real territory war in Western Europe since WWII.
Now look at the good old USA. We are allowing our government to profile Arabs in the name of "combatting terrorism". Minorities and women still need affirmative action programs to balance the playing field. The richest 1% still control almost everything. Our country is divided almost 50-50 because of religious zelotry and ignorant hatred.
Maybe the reason Europe disagrees with us is that we are like the muscle bound but retarded little brother to them, while they are the older wiser sibling. We just haven't realized we need to relax, pay attention, and learn something. Insted we just keep shooting first and asking questions later.
User Reviews
Submitted by no_one (user info) at 2006-02-28 15:07:24 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
I agree with it in a lot of ways. But I disagree with the rich getting richer and poor getting poorer. Even our poor maintain a relatively high standard of living compared to other countries. And having grown up very poor myself, I now have a college degree and am working my way to being one of those millionairs (albeit, I probably won't hit that mark until I'm about 55, but hey). It can be done, you've just got to be willing to sacrifice a lot, and work your ass off.
Submitted by Amusingly_shaped_semen_stain (user info) at 2004-11-08 20:16:54 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
The States of Israel and Palestine were both created at more or less the same time when the British Empire pulled out of the region in the late 40's-early 50's. They divided up the region in to two states, the state of palestine for the arab population (there was no palestinian nation prior to this) and the state of Israel for the native jews and the european jews who didnt fancy going back to live in germany and eastern europe after the war.
Neither side has any ancestral claim to the land and the only reason that the situation is still so volatile is because the arab nations who got their arses kicked in the arab-israeli war are funding and supporting palestinian actions against Israel.
Submitted by asshole at 2004-11-08 17:46:29 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
for a so called "educated accountant," you write like a retarded four year old
and the majority of educated americans voted for bush (November 4, 2004 USA Today)
Submitted by Adamdidit2u (user info) at 2004-11-08 17:30:52 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
As for the asshat who told me to go read a book. I know the history of the middle east. I studied the history of it extensively in high school and college. So I have read many books. From this I conclude that Isreal was created for the same reason Poland was created from the ruins after both world wars: The people's country was taken away by force, so it is only just to restore it. The Palestinians are the decendents of those who took that country away by force, so I have no sympathy for them. Yes countries were fractured. But Isreal was established for a good reason.
If you arent going to be intelligent in your response, don't rate my posts
=============================
You studied it extensivley huh? What the fuck book did you read? Curious George goes to Israel? Poland was reestablished after the occupations of those wars. It was only dissolved during those conflicts. Comparing the two is asanine. Like someone else just said earlier in the post, if being there for hundreds of years doesn't establish you, what does? Israel wasn't established for a good reason. Some very intelligent members of the jewish community took advantage of the state of world affairs and created a country for themselves. Culturally speaking they are from dozens of countries, and have no more right then the people who grew up there.
If you don't post anything intelligent don't expect us to do anything less than point out all of your mistakes and berate you.
cumreceptacle
Submitted by Commie_bastard (user info) at 2004-11-08 17:25:31 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Nice try, but use a spellchecker, overall it was good.
Oh and Donishu, You are the most ignorant dumbass in the world.
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2004-11-08 17:24:43 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Okay, here's the same rationale.
Americans are like Aussies and Brits and Canadians right?
So give your land to Mexicans.
We we take you all in. What's the problem?
Submitted by cuberat (user info) at 2004-11-08 17:14:54 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Oh, and Jeanneee I apologize for the spelling and grammar. I wrote this quickly at work and didn't have much time to review the stylistic elements. I will take more care in it next time.
Submitted by IamNotTheWorldTradeCenter (user info) at 2004-11-08 17:14:26 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
'The jews there there for thousands of years before the palestenians what gives them hold to it after a few hundred years of control? '
You know what you're right. And since we're going that route we are gonna have to pack up and go home . . . All of us. Back to Europe or Africa or Asia. That's right, since we've only been here for a few hundred years we need to give the land back to the Indians.
And there were Jews living in Palestine before it was Israel. Lot's of 'em. And they all got along. They both hated Christians.
ANd the Jews are not a race they are a religion. As Christians we are not from Bethlehem or Nazareth.
Submitted by cuberat (user info) at 2004-11-08 17:12:41 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Its amazing that people want to call me ignorant and then make asses of themselves rating my posts.
Donitsu, I would love to see your sources on what you consider "rich". I am actually an accountant and I look at people's incomes on a daily basis. I can tell you that in this country $68,000 a year for a married couple with a couple of kids isn't "rich" if you want those children to get a good education and you want to be able to have a house of your own, clothes on your family's back, etc, etc, it is alot harder to do this on $68,000 a year then on six figures. So I really would love to hear your sources on what "rich" is. Or maybe I should just jump to a conclusion that you are one of those silver-spoon-six-figure-daddy's money people, like you jumped to a bunch of conclusions about me.
Furthermore, your support of fundamentalist bullshit by saying "their bible tells them to do it" doesn't support your position any. I am a Catholic, but I don't go protesting abortion and persecuting Homosexuals. I and alot of other Catholics and Christians think for themselves. I definitely see more educated individuals of faith disagreeing with the fundamentalist views than those who are less educated.
Oh, and I would love to know how killing a bunch of American soldiers and Iraqi civilians is "peaceful" and "humanitarian". Maybe you should stop, pull your head out of your ass, and look around.
As for the asshat who told me to go read a book. I know the history of the middle east. I studied the history of it extensively in high school and college. So I have read many books. From this I conclude that Isreal was created for the same reason Poland was created from the ruins after both world wars: The people's country was taken away by force, so it is only just to restore it. The Palestinians are the decendents of those who took that country away by force, so I have no sympathy for them. Yes countries were fractured. But Isreal was established for a good reason.
If you arent going to be intelligent in your response, don't rate my posts.
Submitted by Donitsu2002 (user info) at 2004-11-08 17:03:23 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
OneCheapGeek,
A. you're dead wrong that it doesn't affect them.
B. The jews there there for thousands of years before the palestenians what gives them hold to it after a few hundred years of control?
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2004-11-08 17:00:45 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Donitsu2002 (user info) at 2004-11-08 16:37:08 (#)
Ranking: -2
shit this kids an idiot.
Did you know that almost 60% of married couples are in bush's "rich" tax bracket? Rich is considered a household grossing over 68,000 a year. Did you know by the majority of standards "rich" is considered "middle class"? A factory worker making 17 bucks an hour, and a spouse who does the same is considered rich.
------------------
Looked at the tax cuts lately? Most aren't _INCOME_ tax cuts. They are breaks for having kids or owning stock. The one for having kids is minor. Eliminating or severly cutting taxes on dividends helps the rich disproportionately, but it lets them throw big numbers to those who don't actually check their pay stubs.
Submitted by OneCheapGeek (user info) at 2004-11-08 16:55:57 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Or better yet, why dont the Arab nations give up some land to the Palestinians? Insted of trying to steal land from the tiny, resource barren nation of Isreal, why dont the Saudis, Syrians, Lebanese, Kuwaitis, Iranians, etc. give up some of their OIL-RICH land to these displaced people?
---------------
Mostly becauyse that tiny, resource-barren country didn't exist before the US and Britain created it in the 50's.
Just a guess.
Submitted by Jeanneee (user info) at 2004-11-08 16:38:14 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
OK, I know this sounds petty, but... would it kill any of us to be mindful of our spelling and grammar? It really takes away from the credibility of a post like this when the writer doesn't bother to differentiate between "their" and "there."
Other than that, good post. It's very thought-provoking.
Submitted by Donitsu2002 (user info) at 2004-11-08 16:37:08 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
shit this kids an idiot.
Did you know that almost 60% of married couples are in bush's "rich" tax bracket? Rich is considered a household grossing over 68,000 a year. Did you know by the majority of standards "rich" is considered "middle class"? A factory worker making 17 bucks an hour, and a spouse who does the same is considered rich.
Did you also know that people who are intelligent considered bush and voted for him? Have you also considered there are people far more intelligent than you who believe in a higher being? Have you then considered the vast majority of the world believes in a higher being to varying degrees?
you need to take the proverbial stick out of your ass... like the Europeans do and shut the fuck up about things that dont concern you. If the Christians choose to act "christiany" than so be it, their bible tells them to do it so they do... if you consider humanitarian acts and peace bad, i suppose you're the fruitcake that the Euro's hate.
Submitted by Adamdidit2u (user info) at 2004-11-08 16:33:38 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Just some triva.
What country is the #1 buyer of US weapons and munitions?
Thats right it's Isreal. Iraq isn't technically buying them since you can't pay with corpses.
Submitted by IamNotTheWorldTradeCenter (user info) at 2004-11-08 16:30:49 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Israel is expanding. They are building settlements in the occupied territories. That's not right. Why do they need to expand into a land that has been settled for thousands of years by someone else? Why did they build their wall outside of their borders? Why do they engage in tactics that have been universally condoned? If they went back to the '67 borders and granted israeli arabs equality then the other arabs would have no reason to be pissed.
Sharon is trying to eliminate a small portion of the settlements, and people are openly praying for his assination. They are comparing him to Rabin(? can't remember, is that the name of the Israeli PM who was murdered 8 years ago for playing nice with the Palestinians?). Those folks (not jews, not Israelis, the Israelis that think they have a biblical deed to any land they want and the liscence to use force to acquire it) are nuts just like the looney arabs that want to kill us.
We are complicit because we give Israel BILLIONS of dollars of aid each year. All the weapons they use to enforce the occupation, we gave or sold to them.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2004-11-08 16:27:43 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
This was as simplistic as the other post. Well, maybe not. I don't think that would be possible in fact.
Submitted by Adamdidit2u (user info) at 2004-11-08 16:24:48 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
almost wrote a really long -2 review of the above post, but it got too long so I'm posting it here. (I should warn you this is long).
Ok. Here goes.
I have to agree with one part of this post, so I will get it out of the way first. The whole situation with Islam/the Arabs vs. Isreal/the Jews is really messed up. If the Arab countries would allow Isreal the right to exist, and the Jews to have their country, this would solve all of the fighting in the middle east.
Inevitably someone will ask: "What about the Palestinians?"
To this I say: There is all of this support for them from Muslim nations, right?
And most of those nations are in the region where the Palestinians are, right?
So why dont these nations take them in if they like them so much? Doesn't there Koran have something in there about taking in those in need? Or better yet, why dont the Arab nations give up some land to the Palestinians? Insted of trying to steal land from the tiny, resource barren nation of Isreal, why dont the Saudis, Syrians, Lebanese, Kuwaitis, Iranians, etc. give up some of their OIL-RICH land to these displaced people? Basically, the world should stop despising Islam when the Muslims learn to accept everyone else and stop being hypocrits. Now, Im not saying that Americans or any one else for that matter are not hypocrits for certain things, but what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
==========================
I'll only comment on this part. Everybody else will take care of teraing this post to shreds.
First of all undersatnd that Israel was a created state. European nations helped to set it up so alot of the persecuted jews could emigrate there and keep a sphere of influence in the middle east. Thing is though the jewish settlers played some european governmnets like a fucking violin. They ended up with a nation. Now if your Islamic, you don't exactly see eye to eye with jewish people and vice versa. Very conflicting points of view on alot of things. Combine that with the dispute over certain holy sites and you've got a bit of a problem.
Secondly all of the middle east was once the ottoman empire (more or less, lets keep it simple) But again, european countries carved it up n the name of oil. They are the creators of modern day syria, lebanon, iraq ect. They installed puppet governments that were eventully overthrown. So effectivley the fractured the middle east. The resut? Pieces of differnent tribes or ethnic groups being in two or more countries. Ex: The Kurds They inhabit the northern and eastern parts of Iraq, and most of Iran. The palestinians are the same way.
Thirdly the various wars that Israel fought in the 60's and 70's. Yea a bunch of countries tried to fuck them up. Yea a bunch of countries got their asses handed to them. Did we supply lots of weapons, yes. Anyway the point is that Isreal gained substaintal amounts of land during these wars. from several countrys. Can we say animosity?
This is a bit of an over simplification of the problems, but I just wanted you to see that the issues over there are VERY complex. Your short sighted views of the issues astound me. Next time before you go and make all of stupid comments, stop, and read a book first.
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2004-11-08 16:19:01 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
What's with all the name-calling? You sound just as closed-minded as those that you are trying to blame.
Submitted by Zandy1123 (user info) at 2004-11-08 16:18:02 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
"Maybe the reason Europe disagrees with us is that we are like the muscle bound but retarded little brother to them, while they are the older wiser sibling."
--
StrongBad is to StrongMad as Europe is to the U.S.
how's that for an analogy?