Ponderings on sex, love, and open relationships (a somber change of pace) (6418 hits)
Category: RomanceRating: 0.78 on 40 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by Jonukah (View user info) at 2004-05-10 00:00:54 EDT
There is a young lass who works in the movie store at my local mall. I chatted with her from time to time on my lunch break while working at Sears. I can never decide which of her features is more prominent, her high cheek bones, or her fabulous cheeks (gotta love the ass.) Of course, I've kept my flirting at a minimal, and have never attempted to court her, because her boyfriend works at the store next-door. Today I walk into the store looking for a M-day gift, and I see her:
"How is your boy next door?"
"I don't have a boy next door," she says matter-of-factly
"Oh.....," I respond, while trying to maintain composure.. "Is that a good thing or a bad thing?"
"That depends on who you ask. If you ask him, it is a good thing. If you ask me, it is a bad thing."
"Oh....well then I'm very sorry." I can't contain my smile this time. She smiles back. My smile broadens. Her smile broadens.
<silence>
"Well then, you take care of yourself," I finally say, searching her eyes.
"Okay," eyes twinkling.
Obviously, I missed my chance for a date, but I had my reasons. It was good enough to know that I could of had a date.
The dating game is both a great joy and a great struggle,.for me. For those of you who don't know, I have maintained a fairly long-standing relationship with my girlfriend. We have our little rules, though I have come to learn: The fewer rules agreed upon that both are comfortable with, the better. But I will get to that in a minute.
My greatest struggle with my situation is how to handle new dating prospects. I have nothing to lose, but my prospect may. It is easiest to say nothing about my girlfriend, but I don't believe that is right. While it may not legally be considered fraud by silence, my conscience nags harder and harder the longer I withhold the information. The question is when to say it. I like to say it after initial attraction is verified, but before any emotional attachment on their part.
For the girl and conversation mentioned above, I opted to not even try. She was just dumped, and is on the rebound. This would be great for me if I was a betting man, but I'm not, and I fear that she is too vulnerable to risk attempting to have a physical relationship. Even if she said she wasn't interested in her relationship, I would trust her thoughts, but not her emotions. The last thing I want to do is break someone's heart. Once in the past has someone asked for more than I could give, and I had to break things off. Don't try to break me away from Jenny, you will fail.
This is where someone usually asks me, "If you love Jenny so much, why do you need to fuck other women?"
First of all, it isn't about the sex. (Pauses for a rude interruption of your chuckling.) I'm not looking for another "conquest" to scratch a line on a chalkboard. Sure, sex is a part of it, a significant part of it, but when it really comes down to it, I just want the chance to be twenty-one years old. What do I mean by that? Well, first off, I'm not going to get much more attractive over the years (Loren may protest that, but only if I cut my hair.) But let us assume for one moment that I never opened my relationship with Jenny, who was my first love, and married her. Marriage is for life....well, supposedly, so when am I going to get a chance to date again? When she dies? When I die? Twenty years from now, if not sooner, I do not want to regret never giving myself the chance to go out and date, and I figure this is my only chance.
What is so great about dating? What do I want to experience that I can't experience with Jenny. Why can't I simply love and cherish one person for the rest of my life? First love till death to us part?
Well, to be frank, that just doesn't cut it for me. (Prepare for mushy analogy)
Jenny is my rose, and red is her color. But how can I ever TRULY appreciate her form, her touch, her color, and her beauty if I never have anything to compare her to. Without sifting through the weeds, and picking through the various and diverse flowers of the world, how can I even DEFINE a flower, let alone a rose? Does not a red rose look most beautiful when contrasted against a green holly?
Through my exploration in the "savage garden" (you didn't copyright that Ms. Rice, did you?) I have learned more about my Jenny than I ever could otherwise. And I enjoy each new flower more than the last, because I can better appreciate each of their unique beauties. Every little detail and subtle difference is ever brighter and clearer.
Well if you enjoy dating around so much, why stay with Jenny?
Because I love her. Do I KNOW what love is? Of course not. Is it conceivable that there is someone out there that I would love more than Jenny? Of course. Do I believe in true love? No.
On love...
When you get down to it, the only thing I can say for sure is that I THINK I love Jenny. But can anyone else say anything more with as much certainly? I say no. We have what, sixty some percent of instances of "true love" ending in divorce? Was it really true love? Who the fuck knows. But I will tell you what I think about love.
As I embarrassed as I am to quote Matrix Revolutions, "Love is a connection." I think that connection is a culmination of many different things: Empathy, compassion, lust, recognition, cognizance, cohesion, pheromones perhaps, etc. These occur on different levels, and so love occurs on different levels. I believe that love starts as soon as a connection is made, and increases as that connection becomes stronger though the building of its various components. I would even go as far as to claim love is graphable, if you know all of its components and their individual levels. But then, at what point on the y axis would you call love "love" or "true love?" I say why bother trying to define the point.
If one insists that there is ttrue love, the only thing I would guess is that true love occurs when your love for that person exceeds the love you have for yourself. This would explain why people with low self-esteem become attached so easily, because it doesn't take that great of a connection to surpass their self-love. And the opposite seems to hold true as well. It has seemed to me that very happy people take longer to become very attached to someone.
There is a lot more I would like to say about my theories on love, and may post more of it in the future, but really, I don't know a goddamn thing about love. When you strip everything away, all my pitiful little theories, and discover why I believe the things I do, the answer is very simple.
I believe whatever suits me. As selfish and arrogant as that sounds, it is true. I do not believe in true love, and I believe that one can love many people, and I believe that loving another does not decrease your love for anyone else. Why? Because I have an open relationship and I am enjoying it. If, one day, I find that I want to spend the rest of my life with one person, I may change my belief and claim that there is true love.
Then again, I don't know if I believe it because it suits me, or it suits me because I believe it, I just believe it. Or maybe I do know, but I don't know what I don't know, and that is all I know.
Fuck it. For now, I'm happy with the relationship, Jenny is happy with the relationship, so why should I worry? I don't believe in a hell I can go to for this "decadence".
Back to open relationships....
As for open relationships in general, I generally advise against them. It must be completely and totally mutual. It takes a certain sensitivity and a certain maturity on both parties for it to work. Not a greater maturity, per se, but certainly a unique on. Jealously must be all but non-existent. Good communication is a must. Rules are a bad idea. Why? They don't work. Here is a list of what I think are the most awful rules for open relationships:
1. You can date other women, but no sex.
2. You can have sex, but you can't kiss.
3. No cuddling.
4. No spending the night.
5. I must approve of the person.
6. No [specific sexual activity].
7. You have to call me as soon as the date is over.
And here are the three that I hate most:
8. He/she can't hang out with you and your friends
If you have an open relationship, you should be open and honest about it. If you are embarrassed, then you need to rethink your embarrassment or the open relationship.
9. We can both only have relationships with people of my sex
This is both funny and ignorant. The straight guy tells his bi-curious girlfriend that they can both only have relations with other girls. Yeah, works out for you nice, doesn't it asshole? You probably also said that you can have threesomes, but only with an extra girl. Pure ignorance.
10. No falling in love.
I believe that Love, by an economic definition, is a public good. It is non-rival and non-excludable. This means that you can't prevent someone from loving, and that the love you have for someone doesn't limit the love you have for others. If this is the case, than the only way you can prevent someone from falling in love with someone else is to deny that person of all human contact. Even without having an open relationship, people fall in love with people outside the relationship all the time. So don't kid yourselves.
And if you truly believe you want someone, then you should want the best for them. If your lover finds that he/she will be happier with someone else, why would you want to deny that? Of course, the spark that burns initially always burns deceivingly bright, you must simply be aware of this. Now, here is a list of the rules I DO have with Jenny concerning the relationship:
1. Before we arrive at the same social function, we decide whether we are going single or as a couple. If we arrive at the same function by surprise, we respect the other person's date.
2. Well tell each other if we have relations with someone new. There was one instance where I failed to do this right away, but only because it was the worst sex I ever had and really wanted to forget about it. <Shudders>
3. If one of us shows a desire to close the relationship, it closes. It must be mutual. (This has happened twice for various reasons, we are currently open.)
4. Frequent blood tests. It is just fucking good courtesy, let alone safety and health. The only other living things I want to share intimately with Jenny are a cute little Pakistani girl (just kidding Amy....Well....not really, but...), Brad Pitt, some hot chick, Orlando Bloom, InsanetheMind, lucky ubersite girl (it could be you! Or not) or otherwise completely and totally human. No microscopic stowaways.
That is really about it. I still don't know if I should proceed with the movie store girl. Perhaps I shall simply wait a while before asking her out, letting her know about Jenny somewhere in between.
I will close with the one thing I can't stand about having an open relationship:
DON'T ASK ME IF YOU CAN FUCK MY GIRLFRIEND!!!
I'm not the one that needs to give you permission. Jenny has a mind of her own, go fucking ask her. I'm not her damn pimp. Just know that Jenny will tell me all about it afterwards.
Anyway, I suppose it is about time that I put Jenny's picture up. She won't mind, right?
User Reviews
Submitted by sideshow (user info) at 2007-04-05 16:59:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I read this a while ago, but forgot to rate. Excellent piece of work. I don't agree with the relationship status, but that is a personal choice. I'm too jealous for that. Although I would love to fuck some other women at the same time....but I've made my choice.
Wonderful!
Submitted by ornerybastard (user info) at 2004-10-12 11:03:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Can I fuck your girlfriend?
Submitted by Williams_2004 (user info) at 2004-10-12 10:49:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Just No, besides she as white side burns and looks like a man. Doesnt say much for u man
Submitted by CleverName (user info) at 2004-06-12 15:26:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Vaginas are wonderful, mysterious things, and some are nicer than others, but every woman has one.
However, not all women will fit you- their special area or otherwise. Find a good woman whose soul and vagina are a good fit for you and be happy with that. Then wait awhile and fuck it up.
Submitted by Alexxa <sakewl.at.yahoo> at 2004-06-12 04:12:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I didn't even get through it all. My eyes glazed over till I remembered you're pretty decent for putting pix up. Jenny's kinda cute (Little girl Charm) but I'm much nicer (I'm just right). Also I'm a 9 on a rate site with only 4 votes, but thats not important. Just throwing it out there.
Submitted by lojope (user info) at 2004-06-01 08:57:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Wow. This is weird. I read this before, but I didn't know who you were really. But now that I know who you are, this makes a lot more sense. I think it's really cool. I don't think I could ever do it though. I am one of those who believe in True Love and all that. I do think that it's possible that there are several "The One"s, but I like to pretend there is only One and it's all magic and fireworks and you just Know that you love them.... But I also think stuff like Beauty and the Beast could really happen, so don't listen to me...
Submitted by reallybored (user info) at 2004-05-24 11:43:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Call me old school, but i think that open relationships are fucking strange as hell.
The idea that some guys dick was in my girlfriend the other day is not exactly a pleasant thought.
Submitted by hcp28 (user info) at 2004-05-22 16:25:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
You slut monkey
Submitted by hamilton (user info) at 2004-05-20 19:38:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i seriously want to give you a paragraph long explanation on how truly awesome this post is. But, in the most respectful way possible, all i'm gonna say is WOWZA!
Submitted by R.Duke <good.lord.wowzers.at.yuck.com> at 2004-05-19 17:43:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Holy fuck this girl is a beaten, monster of a lady. Fucking nasty. How can she get men! I liked teh post, give a 1 or 2, picure ruined it. give that a -2.
Submitted by Lisa (user info) at 2004-05-19 16:40:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I skimmed this post just to get the basic gist, and I think the point is clear: I rock.
Submitted by munkeypants (user info) at 2004-05-19 16:28:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
hey, if it works for the both of you all the power to ya...
Submitted by Loren1 (user info) at 2004-05-19 16:15:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I don't agree with the setup, but if you think it works for you, knock yourself silly.
Apollo - that is indeed Jenny.
Submitted by Falco (user info) at 2004-05-18 02:47:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
If thats the chick, my advice is bag it
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2004-05-18 02:27:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Thats not your biatch, biatch!
Submitted by shadow (user info) at 2004-05-15 22:27:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Jon, I undestand your feelings about "being twenty-one" but seriously, if you love her, then she comes first... and only.
If there is one thing I cannot stand about being in a relationship with someone, it's the feeling of coming in second. Second to work or school, but mostly being secong to another person. I won't settle, and I won't compromise, if you want me, then you want only me. You get the whole package or nothing at all. Perhaps I am too demanding, but I honestly don't see how either of you can be happy knowing that the other is "with" someone else. And yes, I have tried the open relationship... it fucking hurt.
Submitted by Arla (user info) at 2004-05-11 13:25:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I have never read the "open relationship" rationalized so well.
I think it all comes down to happiness. If you are both happy - then great. Its not something that I have enough self esteem to support.
This site sure has a lot of people who comment without thinking.
Perhaps if we all left our address and phone numbers with our names the replies would be a little more thought out. Oh well.
It was an interesting read.
Submitted by OfficinSkeelz (user info) at 2004-05-10 23:46:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
You said alot of things that were very insightful, but overall, I wasn't following you the whole way. It was a bit of a ramble, but I understand you had shit to get off your chest.
In terms of your "open" relationship, I'm not sure I 100% understand the rationale behind it, but whatever floats your boat is up to you. I can relate in that I have been with my future wife for four years now but still just flirt with other women to see how they respond. You know, just to see if I "still have it" even though I'm a taken man. Never turns into anything, it's just more of a game.
Good job.
Submitted by Spiral_Abraxis (user info) at 2004-05-10 23:23:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Very insightful dude. Good shit, as always.
Submitted by Bigmike (user info) at 2004-05-10 23:09:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I really appreciate the glimpse into your mind, Jonukah. Seriously. Thank you for writing and for not trying to be fantastically clever or funny.
I, for one, appreciate it.
That being said, I think you know diddly squat about love. Just like the rest of us.
The only thing I know about love is that, if it's not unconditional then it's just not.
Submitted by shitfuck (user info) at 2004-05-10 15:18:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
She's got funny gums.
Not that I wouldn't like to punch her teeth out and feel them on my cock. I guess this was good. It just feels strange to me saying that, considering what I've said to you and about you in the past.
My advice:
Sex+Lots of Girls+Free STD Clinics=A typical shitfucked weekend.
Submitted by your_brown_eyed_girl (user info) at 2004-05-10 15:04:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Fucked up.
I wish I had something like that going.
Submitted by mikethescottish (user info) at 2004-05-10 14:48:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
She seems to be greying in parts...
Good post, mind.
Submitted by Luckystar (user info) at 2004-05-10 14:36:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
uummmm you're stupid
also..... they have a talk show dedicated to people who act like you
and, is that the girl from the 'yellow teeth' post??
Submitted by Razor (user info) at 2004-05-10 13:25:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Well, for the record, I know both Jon and Jenny pretty well...
to answer someone's question, they both pretty much take advantage of the open relationship on an even basis.
Submitted by Fixer (user info) at 2004-05-10 10:53:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
The Willie E. Cyote of posts.
Submitted by hendrixjrr (user info) at 2004-05-10 10:03:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
"Sure, sex is a part of it, a significant part of it, but when it really comes down to it, I just want the chance to be twenty-one years old."
This hits way too close to home!
Submitted by slowlyrotting (user info) at 2004-05-10 09:22:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
how about just having threesomes? you can include your girlfriend so everyone leaves happy.
of course, the damage it will do to the sanctity of the relationship will never be fixed, but at least you'll have some good stories to tell your buddies when you break up.
Submitted by Judoka (user info) at 2004-05-10 09:19:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
This is a receipe for disaster, or maybe at 21 you and your girlfriend are more mature than I am at 31. After reading this the first thing that came to my mind is, "whats the split?" By that I mean this open relationship, mutally agreed apon, who ventures forth from the relationship more? I would bet good money it is you.
I think that men in general are biologically driven to be more promiscuous that the female. After all, we dont deal with the effects of pregnancy. I know there are men who are faithful to their spouse, my Father and Mother have been married 32 years. So from a male point of view I can certainly see the benefits of an open relationship.
However, you do raise some interesting questions. Like the nature of love. Is it merely a chemical reaction in your limbic system? If so there would be no problem moving from partner to partner. If you believe that love has a psychological componet, the open relationship would seem to hinder that. And what if that psychological componet deepens over time? Can you gain that "maturity" when you are seeing someone outside of your relationship with the woman you claim to care for?
I hate to bring this up, but there is the chronological aspect to consider. Do you think that this a tenable position over time? Again I hate to be reductionist, but there is that matter of babies. A female is going to want to have a stable relationship with her partner is there are children invovled.
As always a well written piece.
Submitted by Nicole3 (user info) at 2004-05-10 07:32:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I won't have time to respond to this properly today, but here is a tidbit:
Healthy relationships are about more than "love" however you define it. They are about more than kindness and caring, sex and intimacy. There must also be a component of respect. Respect for each other. I won't use you and you won't use me and it doesn't matter what that usage is - emotional crutch, sex, money, whatever.
I think you know where I'm going.
Submitted by UberWeiss (user info) at 2004-05-10 07:31:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Don't believe the hype - everyone would love this to be true, but it's quite fascinating how the male mind waxes intellectual when justifying the drive of the penis.
Just because you marry someone doesn't mean there isn't someone better out there. Marrying someone is saying "You're the one I want". Not the big-breasted babe next door who has bigger tits than you, not the sexy corporate chick who has more money than you and not even the hippy chick who's into threesomes and fucks better than you do - I want you because I'm willing to take the good with the bad and make it work.
All this crap about "THE ONE" - waiting for THE ONE, is she THE ONE. Personally I believe there are millions, but it takes a bit of balls (and less dick) to decide to stick with one and let yourself be happy.
Monogamy doesn't come naturally to us guys - we like to fuck, plain and simple and the next piece of asse is as good as the first we ever had, but being sentient means thinking about people other than yourself and growing up a bit. It's what separates the sapiens from the canines.
In other words, if you want to fuck around, fuck around. DON'T GET MARRIED, and don't try and justify your hormones with drippy rules about how to fuck around so the other person doesn't mind, that's just childish. The sixties are over, man.
UW
Submitted by DavyJones (user info) at 2004-05-10 03:06:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Rings all to true for me. During the school year Andrea and I are 2 hours apart, and see each other roughly every other week. Sometimes I really feel like we should just split up and be college kids; test the waters, but that feeling usually is set in combat with the what if. What if I never find someone else I will love like her. Too bad you are right about the must be mutual part of an open relationship; I would be for, but she would certainly be against.
Submitted by chipolatte (user info) at 2004-05-10 03:00:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
hell, i'd let her let me cum on that face.
Submitted by iddqd (user info) at 2004-05-10 02:25:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
i think this is one of the best things of yours ive read. its a hell of a manisfesto, and some prety solid wisdom. or at least some well phrased questions about the pros and cons of monogamy. youre right about the whole "you can fuck other women, but no men" bullshit that some guys get away with. its just selfish and underhandedly constraining.
though thats a pretty fucked up relationship you got going on there. why dont you just call it quits for a while and go out and sample the world a bit then go back if you want to. the on-again, off-again fuck-buddy crap will eventually only lead to grief.
shit or get off the pot.
ps. dont see how you could do much better...
Submitted by Ainkara (user info) at 2004-05-10 01:46:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Some friends of mine tried that once... Didn't work. They both got too jealous.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2004-05-10 01:39:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Open relationships are too tough. If you are long distance I can understand it, but if I cared about someone I would go nuts if I showed up somewhere and they were somone else, I would have to pound them or fuck her sister, in front of her.
You said not to ask if I could jam your girlfriend, how about you give me her number so I can ask her?
Submitted by chipolatte (user info) at 2004-05-10 01:10:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I liked this.
Submitted by Random Joe at 2004-05-10 00:53:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Red on the head, like a dick on a dog?
Submitted by GodChicken (user info) at 2004-05-10 00:39:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Now that's a damn pretty lady there.
Now for words of wisdom from the GodChicken:
There are no rules that the heart will not eventually break. Try to hold too hard to those rules, and you'll break your heart on them, too.
Glad it works for you, I have some swinger friends who've tried to invite me along, but I just can't do that. The act is too much intertwined with emotions, for me.
Submitted by domenad (user info) at 2004-05-10 00:33:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Jon, don't really know how to say this, so I'll just say it without insult intended.
Relationships are not supposed to be the equivalent of an equal packet - you don't just taste the sweetness and then throw it away. The real sign of a man, a mature and worldly man, is when you realize that sex and dating are only those things and nothing more - when they are concluded, nothing is built, nothing is added, nothing is accomplished. The point of a relationship is to have those things, but also to have a foundatin to build something on, that being a family and a future.
Submitted by jonukah (user info) at 2004-05-10 00:20:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I wasn't trying to make a complete list, just throw out some examples. Yes, I would include trust
Submitted by youarsoghey (user info) at 2004-05-10 00:14:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
What about trust?
Submitted by jonukah (user info) at 2004-05-10 00:03:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
This is what happens when I post after a whole day of studying and repressing my right-brain