I Love you (1514 hits)
Category: NoneRating: -0.7 on 80 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by sword (View user info) at 2009-10-14 07:59:20 EDT
I can't hurt you like you hurt me, but I can try.
I'm going to fuck you until you die.
Just like you made my heart ache,
I'm going to make your bones break.
I want to see you twist
While I love you with my fist.
I want to feel you shake
While I learn how much you can take.
I want to hear you cry
While I fuck you till you die.
I hate that we will soon be through
But I love what I must do.
Thinking about your vivisection
Only hardens my errection.
Your dark brown eyes, so deep and sweet,
Will stain the floor beneath my feet
Your long brown hair I'll gather while you quake
And by the handful I'll extirpate
You'll swallow bits of your own teeth
Before I make your throat my dick-sheath
Your body, so lithe and firm
Will shudder, tremble and squirm.
I'll break your knees, just for fun
And fuck you again, when I'm done.
I can't even breathe, your name is all I think
So my cum, mixed with your blood, I'll make you drink.
As you drown I'll say good-bye
I'm going to fuck you until you die.
User Reviews
Submitted by iddqd (user info) at 2009-10-19 23:12:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
this is such a bad poem its fucking laughable that any of you idiots actually bothered to respond.
check out my masterpiece on the fraught nature of male/female relationships, and the yearning love the speaker has for a woman. when youre done absorbing its subtle power, we can have a frank and open discussion about it:
i like stuff
and i like muff
you have a muff,
do you like... stuff?
sometimes things
make my heart sting
when you sing
it makes my heart go zing
boobies are great
i wish i had eight
YOUR boobies are great
will you be my mate?
---
you people are fucked.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-10-19 03:56:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by sword (user info) at 2009-10-18 00:01:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"Get the point, dipshit???"
I actually kind of guessed that, at the time though this post was tied for most heated, I just wanted to see if I could push it over the top so to speak.
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No smoke without fire, E. Rice Mk2.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-10-19 03:53:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by netimportant (user info) at 2009-10-17 18:39:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Oh my god, people wrote essays about your angsty little poem.
Seriously, guys.
-------------------------
If we don't write essays at the pupescant serial rapists, how can we click our tounges at them and say "told you so" when they're on the news? We've got our smug sense of superiority to consider.
Submitted by firefly (user info) at 2009-10-19 00:22:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I love your mom:)
Submitted by sword (user info) at 2009-10-18 00:01:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"Get the point, dipshit???"
I actually kind of guessed that, at the time though this post was tied for most heated, I just wanted to see if I could push it over the top so to speak.
Submitted by kittycat87 (user info) at 2009-10-17 23:02:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
sigh. bubba's been on the sauce again.
Submitted by willartstorg (user info) at 2009-10-17 21:37:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by sword (user info) at 2009-10-17 20:14:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
netimportant, why is it bad that people wrote a lot about it? Not cool enough?
It was an interesting conversation in my opinion, why shouldn't we have it?
==========
Because you AND your post are piles of SHIT!!
Get the point, dipshit???
Submitted by sword (user info) at 2009-10-17 20:14:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
netimportant, why is it bad that people wrote a lot about it? Not cool enough?
It was an interesting conversation in my opinion, why shouldn't we have it?
Submitted by netimportant (user info) at 2009-10-17 18:39:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Oh my god, people wrote essays about your angsty little poem.
Seriously, guys.
Submitted by netimportant (user info) at 2009-10-17 18:37:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Man, this place is a hotbed for future serial rapists.
Submitted by experima (user info) at 2009-10-17 14:51:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
fuck my scroll
here is my real rating
Submitted by experima (user info) at 2009-10-17 04:12:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
no
Submitted by paxilliona (user info) at 2009-10-16 18:10:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Poetry should be beautiful. This is pure garbage. Violence is never OK, no matter who does it.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-10-16 07:48:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Well basically you need to square that shit and get over it.
I'm guessing you're a young lad and this is the first knockback you've had. I understand you're venting but it's a poisonous attitude to have. Not all your relationships will end badly and not all women are going to hurt you. However bad this relationship ended, if you allow yourself to get all bitter and angry and resentful then you are letting yourself down.
Forgive and move on.
Submitted by sword (user info) at 2009-10-16 05:23:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I have been thinking about this poem, and the conversation we have been having about it, and I have some ideas that are similar to yours.
You suggest that infatuation is a one way relationship while love is a two relationship, I am not sure that is a technical definition, but, if it is the one you want to use then it would be more appropriate to describe the poem as an expression of infatuation.
I feel like I could explain myself a little better. I can barely eat. I cannot finish meals. I can't sit still. I go for days without sleeping, when I finally close my eyes I actually dream about her. I tell myself it will get better with time. I tell myself, just wait you'll forget her, you'll move on. I have been telling myself that every day for the past two months, and every day it just feels a little bit worse.
I could describe how I am feeling for pages, but suffice it to say that I feel bad. What makes this bad feeling worse is that I don't have any solution for it other than to say, just wait. Every other time in my life when I have wanted something I could work at it to get it. Now, I'm not saying I get everything I want, but it seems that I've always been able to work towards whatever I want and that the only reason I couldn't get something I wanted is because I wasn't willing to work hard enough to get it.
Not so here. Using your terminology I can't control my infatuation, I can't work to make it any less. I can't make progress towards making it go away. By the same token I can't work towards towards making her love me. Believe me, I have tried. I was as clever, witty, and charming as I can possibly be and it wasn't enough. Now I am drowning all the time in a hopeless misery and I have no idea how to get out of it or how to make it better and I would blow my own brains out if it weren't for this sad, pathetic little thought that maybe, in some possible remote future, maybe we could be together.
That last sentence is probably an exaggeration, but I am at 40 hours without being able to sleep right now and I feel more depressed than usual.
I said the poem was about how I feel and it is an expression of that. The whole idea about not being able to convince her to love me, not being able to even work towards getting what I want, not being able to escape the hurt and the pain, is what the poem is about - to me at least. Maybe this is what you mean by an expression of lack of control, and if so then I would say we are in agreement.
Rape, I felt, was a fair way of expressing the sentiment involved because it is a one sided thing. One party wants it, the other doesn't. I mentioned vengeance in an earlier reply, that comes up too, The rape in the poem is painful and violent, hurting someone because I was hurt.
Another idea that I tried to express was that it also destroys or ruins the very thing it is trying to achieve. There are three couplets that deal with particular physical characteristics I find attractive and then the destruction of those features and the poem itself culminates in the murder of the very same girl I said I loved. Earlier Snark called it a celebration of rape, I disagree, I'd call it more a lament on the hopelessness of unrequited love.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-10-16 04:18:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by sword (user info) at 2009-10-15 16:46:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"raping someone to death is "an admittedly perverse expression of love..."? "
That is how I see it.
-----------------------
You know I think I can almost see the idea you're trying to get at. Are you talking like how in That 70's Show whenever Eric's dad, Red, said he was going to put his foot up Eric's ass that it was an expression of love and fatherly concern? 'Cause if it is, it's a line I've wondered about myself.
Exploring it though, it don't really stack up. Love is about a relationship between two people. If it's one way then it is an infatuation. Doesn't stop an infatuation being a powerful thing, but love is a definition of a bond.
Further to that you've got the question of motivation and violence in all this. What you're really talking about, when you're talking about sexual violence and/or physical or emotional violence in a relationship, is control and insecurity. Now when we return to the concept of love as a bond, a two way deal, if one person is essentially removing the other's ability to choose then, inherantly, it is no longer love.
Do you see?
Submitted by sage104 (user info) at 2009-10-16 00:39:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
This poem was strangely arousing.
Whoopsie..I mean, this is HORSESHIT. Never post again.
Submitted by pandora (user info) at 2009-10-15 17:20:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Is this some of that "horrorcore" I hear tell about on my TV box? You young whippersnappers and your hippity-hop music!
Submitted by sword (user info) at 2009-10-15 16:46:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"raping someone to death is "an admittedly perverse expression of love..."? "
That is how I see it.
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-10-15 14:06:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Don't have time for a full rebuttal atm but.... raping someone to death is "an admittedly perverse expression of love..."?
WTF
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2009-10-15 07:29:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
My Masters thesis was on violence in dating (i.e not married) relationships and the gender differences in expressed violence. Here's what I found in my sample population.
The individuals who (anonymously) admitted to being violent in their relationships, were both men AND women.
I had more women than men admit to being violent.
But...
The majority of the females reported perpetrating more low level violence which was comprised of verbal abuse, shoving, open handed slaps, things like that.
However...
a small percentage of females reported moderate violence where they would throw objects with the intent to hurt, scratch with the intent to break skin and draw blood, and kick.
An even smaller percentage of females reported high level violence where they would closed fist punch, use weapons, and choke. I even had a few women indicate that they sexually abused their male dating partners.
It was an anonymous questionnaire and they knew it and therefore had no reason to lie. There was always that possibility so I compensated for it statistically.
Oh yeah, sexual violence was considered in the high level violence category. Not MY category mind you but sexual violence is considered high level violence by domestic violence/intimate violence researchers.
So onto the men.
A small percentage of the men reported engaging in low level violence.
Here's where it got disturbing.
The rest of the men were pretty much even split on committing moderate level violence to high level violence, if and when they got violent with their girlfriends.
This included sexual violence and more men than women reported sexually abusing their female dating partners.
Submitted by WonkoDV (user info) at 2009-10-15 07:10:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
you sick fuck
Submitted by sword (user info) at 2009-10-15 06:39:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"but when there is a law to fall back on AND the 'B' subset is also present"
I get your concept of A and B but I think I demonstrated that A is irrelevant to the situation at hand. You can do things that are brave and illegal and things that are cowardly and legal. There seems to be no relation between legality and bravery.
So, lets set point A aside, I hope we can both agree to that, and just consider B. B is something like this - Violence is more cowardly when the strong hurt the weak. You then try to show that women are generally weaker than men and that therefore violence against women is generally worse against them.
It seems to me that this argument will get you into trouble. Lets say there is a woman, call her Betty, who is just as strong as I am. A passing stranger who is stronger than both of us comes by and beats me up first and then beats up Betty. Who has suffered more here? The stranger just beat up two people of equal strength, so was it more cowardly for him to beat up Betty than it was to beat up me? At other points in your argument you seem to say Yes (or even "Fuck yes") but this point you are making now would contradict that. So, which is it? Is all violence against relatively weaker people bad or is it just violence against women that is bad?
"In order to rape, the victim must be subdued, either physically or by other means"
I think this is really a fine point. To make our example fit better suppose when I threw the rock it hit and killed the strongman's child. Now, instead of just beating me he ties me up, subdues me if you will, and tortures me. Would that make the analogy closer?
Both the strongman and myself, in the poem, are hurting another person out of a desire for revenge. When you assume other motives, like the desire for power or dominance over a woman, you should be aware that those do not come from the text. I think the text is pretty clear in its message, you hurt me, I'm going to hurt you.
"Now you are trying to move from the exception to the rule because it suits you, and you are also wrong"
I don't have any statistics to back up this line of thinking so I won't spend too much time on it. As I mentioned though, it seems, as a general rule, violence is perpetrated by the strong against the weak. As I ask later, how could it be any other way? A weak guy cannot beat up a strong guy, the strong guy can easily defend himself. If we are willing to grant that violence tends to pit the weak against the strong then we will see that there is nothing particularly special about women being the recipient of violence. They are just a group of weaker people.
"is also a display of power"
I am afraid I have lost the thread of the argument here. I understand you claim that rape is about power or dominating a woman, I get lost in how that connects to the argument. Does the fact that the crime is about power make it worse somehow? More cowardly? If not, what is the point of bringing it up? Even if rape is usually about power, and that certainly sounds convincing, I would argue that that is not the case in the poem and it does not relate to the discussion at hand. Perhaps you could clarify this point.
"Agreed, bad example, but I don't believe the poor choice above negates my argument."
Allow me to reiterate then, I feel the example is a good one, but one that seriously jeopardises your argument. If the same crime, in our case rape, done to a man is just as bad as when it is done to a woman we can agree that there is nothing special about being a woman that makes crimes perpetrated against you worse than identical crimes perpetrated against men.
"something a man typically doesn't have to fear outside of the confines of a prison"
Granted, women are more susceptible to rape. Is it any worse though for men because it is more rare?
"This example is horrible... not compelling"
I apologise, I should have been more clear. The fire marshal has a better chance of saving his family from the fire than the grocer. A man has a better chance of defending against rape than a woman. If the fire marshal looses his family isn't that just as bad as the grocer losing his? If a man gets raped isn't that just as bad as a woman getting raped?
"incredibly blatant celebration "
Celebrating rape was not my intention and I do not believe that theme occurs in the text. If you want to point it out, please do. The ideas I was attempting to express were limited to a personal relationship. I wanted to have a theme of as you have hurt me with love I will use, an admittedly perverse expression of love to hurt you. I think, though I might be wrong, that that theme is much better supported in the text.
"I'm all for writing what you feel. I'm all for the consequences of it as well. "
Absolutely, I wasn't trying to get out of anything by saying "I am just writing what I feel", instead I was trying to explain that it wasn't about my parents or abuse or whatever. Instead it was just about my feelings towards one person at one particular time.
Submitted by TuTs (user info) at 2009-10-15 06:10:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
They have a psychological profile of Rapists.
Power rapists: These needed to be reassured of their manhood. They would only do what their victims permitted and suffered from premature ejaculation. They also tended to be assertive and were involved in date rapes and some had difficulty ejaculating due to drinking.
Anger Rapist: His attitude was to punish women. They tended to adopt a selfish blitz type approach. They were usually married, hot-tempered and used excessive force. Some were sadistic and suffered from psychopathic tendencies including the likelihood of torturing their victims. They often carried rape kits and again had difficulties with ejaculation. They sometimes used bondage and weapons such as guns and knives. Their victims were often severely injured or killed.
Opportunistic Rapist : He committed crimes of robbery and then incidentally, raped his victim.
Is there a common profile of a rapist?
+ Yes, the experts have isolated a number of factors that can predispose one to becoming a rapist. Watch out for the following:
• Emotional abuse
• Tries to control elements of your life
• Gets easily jealous
• Gets angry if you offer to pay on a date
• Is physically violent
• Doesn't view you as an equal
• Is intimidating in a physical and emotional way
So what I take from this is you're emotionally retarded and can't get it out.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-10-15 05:30:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Or in brief: violence is for pussies who lack the capability to solve their problems properly.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-10-15 05:29:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
1 - I posit that violence becomes cowardly when A - The act is done in spite of the rule of law and B - the ability of the victim of the violence is obviously less able to defend theirself compared to the ability of the agressor to apply it.
2 - The greater the disparity between power of the aggressor and ability to defend of the victim, the more cowardly the action.
---------------------------
I disagree somewhat. Cowardice is a matter of perception. In that it is in conflict with how a virtuous person would conduct themselves: by not giving into anger or fear and maintaining total control at all times. In an imagined scenario whereby we have a perfect person; whenever our perfect person had to resort to violence due to the imperfect world we live in (Sword goes round his house and chucks a rock at his daughter for instance) he would view it as a failure and regret the act.
My view is that violence, resorting to violence, is a failure. It is a failure of the individual to deal with their problems in a civilised and adult way (by solving it with their mind rather than their fists; like an ape) which can mean a breakdown in communication or failing to take into account all the factors in a given situation. It may not, however, be the direct failure of the individual.
Returning to the example of Sword throwing rocks at a child, it represents a failure in the social mechanisms to prevent Sword from being maladjusted, as well as a failure in the society to protect the child from the maladjusted. Of course it is an imperfect world, it would be moronic to try to deny this, and this is why trying to to apply moral absolutes to real world situations is a nonsense.
Principles, however, of behaviour and recognising that there there is a right and a wrong way to carry out your life in order to recognise the goals and desires that you have is of value. It follows logically that if you decide that the way one will react to rejection with undisciplined bitterness, that it will poison your ability to either make overtures or to find fulfillment in whatever it is you were rejected from. A healthier attitude would be to reflect on the situation, understand why things did not work out, and revise one's approach for the future.
Submitted by kittycat87 (user info) at 2009-10-15 01:33:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
and I love o.b. Pro Comfort tampons doesn't mean I'm gonna write a poem about it.
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-10-15 01:21:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2009-10-15 01:19:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I refuse to read this.
I enjoy the fact there is a big long debate going on over what looks to be a crappy poem.
Also, SNARK... email me, beyotch.
-----------------
Will do :)
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2009-10-15 01:19:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I refuse to read this.
I enjoy the fact there is a big long debate going on over what looks to be a crappy poem.
Also, SNARK... email me, beyotch.
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-10-15 01:07:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I've had to edit due to the fact it won't let me post a long review:
"Being done in spite of the rule of law does not exhibit a lack of courage. Neither does it constitute a refusal to confront danger. Breaking a law, lets say, for example, robbing a police station is not cowardly. etc"
Being done in spite of the rule of law does not make anything necessarily cowardly, but when there is a law to fall back on AND the 'B' subset is also present, it is. Hence the use of sub sets and the use of the word AND rather than OR.
"I consider this a much appropriate and traditional defense of your view. I still think it is flawed though. For example, lets say I went to the house of the strongest man in the world and threw a rock at his children. Next, the strongest man in the world beats me into a pulp. Is he being cowardly?"
All logic is flawed when exceptions are taken into account. I am arguing the rule here, not the exception, and as such stand by it. Statistics back this up.
"Instead of being cowardly or brave we would say that the strongman just has a reason to hurt me and simply acted on it. I hope you can see where this argument is going. In the poem I just have a reason to hurt one single individual girl and act on that. Now, just as the strong man was neither cowardly nor brave I personally conclude that the poem is neither cowardly nor brave."
That logic is flawed in several ways. In order to rape, the victim must be subdued, either physically or by other means. This renders the strong man argument null as it doesn't matter if you are talking about a woman with 50 inch biceps and laser eyes. The ability to defend must be removed before the crime is committed. On the subject of pure violence. You are saying that there is no difference between the strong man pounding on you for throwing a rock as opposed to pounding on a woman if she were to do the same. Lets put aside the example that it sets for his kids, or the accepted standards of society that dictate that most people would be more appalled at the fact he pounded a woman than a man.
We are talking about violence against women generally/statistically. You argument WORKS under that specific situation but does not work, if you look at the statistical historical reasons for it. The self same reasons that the UN has passed resolutions about it and innumerable organizations have arisen specifically to combat it. It is the common reason for its perpetration that fuels my argument. Ask yourself why there are so many shelters for abused women and why it is treated so differently by society than man-on-man violence. The difference between the two and the role of cowardice here is self evident.
"Violence, in my own limited experience, is generally not perpetrated against a victim nearly as strong as the perpetrator."
Now you are trying to move from the exception to the rule because it suits you, and you are also wrong. One example would be direct confrontation by an equally matched or even weaker opponent in direct defense of a much weaker victim, hence the term 'bravery'. Another would be an act of violence brought on by uncontrolled rage or intoxication which often negates your supposed tradition, hence a few million bar fights a week.
"What I am trying to say is that the tradition for violence is for the strong to harm the week, indeed, what other way could it be? If this is true than there is nothing particularly special violence against women."
That is mostly true regarding conflict between nations, otherwise see above.
"I don't see how the motivation of power is cowardly or not. Nevertheless you know generalize all violence against women and draw claims based on that generalization. The poem, as I wrote and read it, is not about power, I think your description of vengeance is a better one. Having been hurt I now have the desire to hurt."
My point here, which is a point I picked up from several anti violence against women organizations when the need to research arose, is that a violent enforcement of submission, is also a display of power, in order to force an unwanted situation on a women who is to weak to effectively defend herself and as such, an act of cowardice. Motivation of power (by itself) is not cowardly by definition.
"For your section on rape:"
"I agree that rape should be illegal of course. It is unclear to me, perhaps from my own inexperience on the subject, that rape is the ultimate crime. That it can hurt women in ways that man could not understand or feel or whatever. I really don't have too much more to say about this because I am not sure it is totally on topic, please correct me if I am wrong."
Ultimate? I don't know, but I can't think of anything worse. I think we are getting back to rules and exceptions. Regardless, It's WAY fucking up there. To me, that's enough.
"This is really the core of our argument then. To me, it seems like it should be the same level of bad-ness and the same level of cowardice. Just because a man happens to be on average stronger does not change the fact that one man has no chance against a gang. Just because a man happens to have a better capacity for resistance does not change the fact that in your situation he still gets raped. I don't believe your ability to defend yourself mitigates the damage from the deed, nor the immorality of it in anyway."
Agreed, bad example, but I don't believe the poor choice above negates my argument. The fact is, statistically it is the weapon of choice for enforcing violent submission on a woman. This is because it is time proven to be the most damaging and effective. It is an incredibly intimate form of evil and something a man typically doesn't have to fear outside of the confines of a prison.
"Fire Marshal Argument"
This example is horrible and has nothing to do with the argument at hand. You pulled a Snark.
"Both mens families burn to death etc"
See above
"I hope that example makes sense. I find it compelling."
Nope, lost me.
"I am a little surprised that you think taking rape humorously would make it some how more moral or proper, but perhaps that is a discussion for another day. I agree though, I wasn't trying to be funny or just pointlessly shocking. I wrote what I felt, then I wanted to see what other people thought, so I posted, nothing more."
I don't say anywhere that rape for the purpose of humor or shock is moral. That is pure assumption. The point is that I don't even see a reason for this. I fucking hated bullshit like 'rape madness' on this site, and all the grimy shit that surfaced after a certain user's admission, but rather than respond to every fucked up sentence that flooded uber for over a year (and helped kill it imo) I went silent. I would have handled this the same way if it did not appear to me to be an incredibly blatant celebration of it.
I'm all for writing what you feel. I'm all for the consequences of it as well.
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-10-15 00:55:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Not letting my post it for some reason... or 5 copies of the response are going to show up.
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-10-15 00:28:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Fuck sakes.
Incomming.
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-10-15 00:28:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Where the fuck is my response?
Submitted by sword (user info) at 2009-10-14 23:41:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Snark
Thanks for you reply. I appreciate the lucidity with which you attempted to defend and promote your beliefs. Nevertheless, I still disagree, and, if I may, I will explain why.
I'll accept your definition of cowardice. I think its a good one. The first issue I have with your argument is:
" posit that violence becomes cowardly when A - The act is done in spite of the rule of law "
Being done in spite of the rule of law does not exhibit a lack of courage. Neither does it constitute a refusal to confront danger. Breaking a law, lets say, for example, robbing a police station is not cowardly. Its actually foolhardy even though it is done in spite of the rule of law. There is nothing inherently cowardly about defying the law then. A pickpocket must have courage to pull off the deed, a rapist must confront the danger of prison and so on. Law-breaking by itself then is not cowardly.
"the ability of the victim of the violence is obviously less able to defend theirself compared to the ability of the agressor to apply it."
I consider this a much appropriate and traditional defense of your view. I still think it is flawed though. For example, lets say I went to the house of the strongest man in the world and threw a rock at his children. Next, the strongest man in the world beats me into a pulp. Is he being cowardly?
I think we would say that his actions are neither cowardly, nor especially brave even though my ability to resist or defend myself is far less than his ability to hurt me. Does this make sense?
Instead of being cowardly or brave we would say that the strongman just has a reason to hurt me and simply acted on it. I hope you can see where this argument is going. In the poem I just have a reason to hurt one single individual girl and act on that. Now, just as the strong man was neither cowardly nor brave I personally conclude that the poem is neither cowardly nor brave.
Violence, in my own limited experience, is generally not perpetrated against a victim nearly as strong as the perpetrator. What I am trying to say is that the tradition for violence is for the strong to harm the week, indeed, what other way could it be? If this is true than there is nothing particularly special violence against women.
"Except in rare cases of self defence, violence against women is about power"
I don't see how the motivation of power is cowardly or not. Nevertheless you know generalize all violence against women and draw claims based on that generalization. The poem, as I wrote and read it, is not about power, I think your description of vengeance is a better one. Having been hurt I now have the desire to hurt.
For your section on rape:
I agree that rape should be illegal of course. It is unclear to me, perhaps from my own inexperience on the subject, that rape is the ultimate crime. That it can hurt women in ways that man could not understand or feel or whatever. I really don't have too much more to say about this because I am not sure it is totally on topic, please correct me if I am wrong.
"Do I believe its cowardly when a gang of fucktards rape a guy in prison? Fuck yes. Do I believe it's more cowardly when they do it to a woman. Fuck Yes. "
This is really the core of our argument then. To me, it seems like it should be the same level of bad-ness and the same level of cowardice. Just because a man happens to be on average stronger does not change the fact that one man has no chance against a gang. Just because a man happens to have a better capacity for resistance does not change the fact that in your situation he still gets raped. I don't believe your ability to defend yourself mitigates the damage from the deed, nor the immorality of it in anyway.
As an example, suppose there are two men, each has a family. One man is a grocer, the other, a fire marshal. Both of their houses burn down and each of their families are killed, who has the worse experience? By your argument it seems we should claim the grocer has the worst experience, after all he was much worse equipped than the fire marshal to defend his family from burning to death.
I think a more intuitive and common sense view would tell us that as both men have had their families burned to death both are suffering equally terrible experiences. By the same logic then any two people who are raped are suffering equally terrible experiences.
I hope that example makes sense. I find it compelling.
" no attempt at humor, no attempt at shock for the sake of itself etc"
I am a little surprised that you think taking rape humorously would make it some how more moral or proper, but perhaps that is a discussion for another day. I agree though, I wasn't trying to be funny or just pointlessly shocking. I wrote what I felt, then I wanted to see what other people thought, so I posted, nothing more.
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-10-14 22:55:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Except in rare cases of self defence, violence against women is about power, or the incorrect reaction to some percieved loss of it. It's about forcing submission to a man's will. 1 in 3 women in North America experience some type of physical/sexual form of this a year. 60% of women worldwide according to the WHO and United Nations.
Stat is miss-worded and should have read: "physical/sexual form of this in their lifetime."
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-10-14 22:52:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
stupid keyboard... full review below
Ok,
I'll take the bait and I'll do my best to make it as factual and clear as possible.
Cowardice:
- the lack of courage
- refusal to confront a reasonable degree of fear or anxiety.
Obviously there are many forms of the above and no societal or scientifically derived standard to use to apply to a scale; from basic cowardice to extreme cowardice, so yes, to an extent it is a belief.
Here's how I came to my own standards where violence and cowardice are concerned:
1 - I posit that violence becomes cowardly when A - The act is done in spite of the rule of law and B - the ability of the victim of the violence is obviously less able to defend theirself compared to the ability of the agressor to apply it.
2 - The greater the disparity between power of the aggressor and ability to defend of the victim, the more cowardly the action.
Or to put it intuitively
Look at the average guy and then look at the average girl. Exceptions aside, the male body is typically designed to be more muscular. I've had very few girlfriends that could break my jaw with one punch and absolutely none that were of a disposition to ever try.
We could get into semantic arguments about this but I'll leave violent crime statistics, human biology and disposition effecting, naturally occuring, hormones (ie estrogen) to back me up.
Except in rare cases of self defence, violence against women is about power, or the incorrect reaction to some percieved loss of it. It's about forcing submission to a man's will. 1 in 3 women in North America experience some type of physical/sexual form of this a year. 60% of women worldwide according to the WHO and United Nations.
Those fucking statistics are disgusting man. That shit holds us back as a species. It stunts us.
Of all the forms of violence against women, rape is one of the most common and most heinous. It is a direct assault on what makes them physically different than a man, and the scars it leaves last a lot fucking longer than a bruise on a cheek. It's evil in one of its most purest forms and not something I can EVER see justified. Especially in what is supposed to be a civilized society. Hence these weird little things we called laws.
On top of this shit, I have personal experience with rape victims and (to a small extent) the men that committed the crime. Fucking cowards every goddamn one. I didn't need logical standards to understand that at the time. I felt it in my bones.
Do I believe its cowardly when a gang of fucktards rape a guy in prison? Fuck yes. Do I believe it's more cowardly when they do it to a woman. Fuck Yes.
It's basic fucking morality man. It might be old fashioned in your eyes. If so, please read above.
I found no point to your song/poem to give any indication that it was anything other than a celebration of the above; no attempt at humor, no attempt at shock for the sake of itself etc.
Also,
What Forensic said.
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-10-14 22:26:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Ok,
I'll take the bait and I'll do my best to make it as factual and clear as possible.
Cowardice:
- the lack of courage
- refusal to confront a reasonable degree of fear or anxiety.
Obviously there are many forms of the above and no societal or scientifically derived standard to use to apply to a scale; from basic cowardice to extreme cowardice, so yes, to an extent it is a belief.
Here's how I came to my own standards where violence and cowardice are concerned:
1 - I posit that violence becomes cowardly when A - The act is done in spite of the rule of law and B - the ability of the victim of the violence is obviously less able to defend theirself compared to the ability of the agressor to apply it.
2 - The
Submitted by Jeanneee (user info) at 2009-10-14 21:21:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Please, please, please let this be about your dad.
Submitted by sword (user info) at 2009-10-14 20:42:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I'm not joking. Is this just something you feel or is it something you think you can explain? If it is just something you feel then I don't think I should be bound by it since my feelings are different than yours. If it is something that you can explain I would love to hear it.
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-10-14 19:33:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
You're joking right?
Submitted by sword (user info) at 2009-10-14 18:33:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Snark
"Its about vengeance and rape".
Sure it is. But, the question I asked you is what makes violence against women worse than violence against men. You said violence against women was the "The lowest form of a coward" and so I asked why. I'd still like to hear you explain that if you can.
You ask me not to "pretty it up" and so I will certainly try not to. I agree it is about vengeance and rape. At the same time though, may I ask you not to "dirty it up". Please do not confound the issue at hand, if you think violence against women is especially wrong that is something I would be curious to see explained.
Submitted by HurtByTheSun (user info) at 2009-10-14 16:17:13 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by orphelia (user info) at 2009-10-14 18:41:54 BST (#)
Ranking: -2
FJ writes awesome poetry here.
======
No, he doesn't.
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2009-10-14 15:52:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
WOULD YOU LIKE SOME MAKING -2???
Submitted by EmissionImpossible (user info) at 2009-10-14 13:44:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Forget about your boyfriend and meet me at the hotel room, you can bring your girlfriends and meet me at the hotel room.
HOTEL
MOTEL
HOLIDAY INN!!!!!
Submitted by orphelia (user info) at 2009-10-14 13:41:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
FJ writes awesome poetry here.
Submitted by Orgasmatron (user info) at 2009-10-14 13:33:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Look, I'm the only one who's allowed to have a Motorhead-inspired username AND post poetry.
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2009-10-14 13:14:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Not meant for Snark below.
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2009-10-14 13:06:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-10-14 11:16:26 CDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Dude, it's not the fact that this is about hurting another human being because it's not. It's about vengeance rape and that's it. Try and pretty it up all you want but this piece of shit poem isn't about fuck all else.
============
So, you rape your male friends when they piss you off I take it?
Submitted by scourge (user info) at 2009-10-14 12:52:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
awww, thanks. i love you too, bro.
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-10-14 12:16:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Dude, it's not the fact that this is about hurting another human being because it's not. It's about vengeance rape and that's it. Try and pretty it up all you want but this piece of shit poem isn't about fuck all else.
Submitted by Dervel (user info) at 2009-10-14 11:57:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-10-14 08:55:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by F.J.Bell (user info) at 2009-10-14 08:51:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
Don't bother. It'll be shit.
-----------
It won't be if he does the Kia Ora advert.
----
Amusing Kia Ora racism can't save eveything Berty. Somethings are just hopeless.
Submitted by sword (user info) at 2009-10-14 11:47:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I think you are being misogynistic Snark. Why is it that violence is worse when used against women? Because they are so pathetically weak they cannot defend themselves? That is the only reason I can come up with, or maybe other equally prejudiced reasons.
Women are people, just like men. They are no worse as targets for nor any better. That is what I think at least, if you think I am wrong then please illuminate me. If you can, kindly explain why it is worse to be violent towards women.
Submitted by Snark (user info) at 2009-10-14 11:27:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by FALLEN (user info) at 2009-10-14 10:02:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
violence towards women is the lowest form of coward.
even if it is a song.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-10-14 11:10:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Yeah, but revenge fantasies are for fags.
Submitted by sword (user info) at 2009-10-14 11:01:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I don't know where you find misogyny in all of this Berty. Its not like I wrote "I hate all women" or "I think women aren't quite as good as men" or anything like that at all. The poem, as I prefer to think of it, is about one girl in particular.
The issues that come to your mind when you see this do so without particular help from me. You read about one person wanting to hurt one other individual and it is you who thinks about misogyny and child abuse and so on. If you see these things in what I wrote perhaps they are your issues, I don't feel that they particularly effect me.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-10-14 10:55:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Fair play. It's just the impression you create when you behave like a mysoginist. Anger's a sign of weakness and all that.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-10-14 10:54:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
And the choice of username: Sword.
Beyond the obvious phallic reference is the whole concept of touch. The sword is an extension of the body, of the hand, of the fingers. Touch is bad. Touch is painful. Touch is dangerous.
The hand of the parent (we assume the father but possibly his mother, we don't know and it is irrelevant), the touch, is associated with all this pain. In later life the boy is becoming a man and is learning about the softness of women. The issue of touch is hard for him to overcome and as such experience either real or imagined rejection.
The boy is unable to become a man, registers as sword on Ubersite and starts writing lyrics.
Submitted by sword (user info) at 2009-10-14 10:48:47 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Berty
"Its just a song right?"
Sure, I guess it could be a song. It doesn't use any meter, so I don't know how well it would work as a song, but if you want to sing it - go for it.
I wrote it, not out of any need to explore my relationship with my mother, nor out of any homosexual urge towards my father as you suggest, because it is how I feel at the moment. If that makes me "the lowest form of a coward", well, okay, I can't help that. It is how I feel, so I wrote it.
As far as my parents go I can't tell if you actually meant your comments or if you just intended them as jibes. If you did mean them, then you are off the mark I am afraid. My parents treated me well and I have never suffered any form of abuse.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-10-14 10:39:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I don't know. Maybe Sword just REALLY likes his dad, if you know what I mean!
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-10-14 10:38:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Is it an exploration of how love and violence and control are intertwined in the psyche of a man with complicated feelings of guilt and blame towards his mother?
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-10-14 10:36:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Maybe I am being too judgemental. It's just a song, right?
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-10-14 10:35:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
In fairness to Sword the statement "men who hit women are super lame" is kind of lacking in nuance.
It's a reference to domestic violence, sword, and how people who commit domestic violence are, regardless of gender, weak.
It is hard to deal with though! Don't they say that 1 in 5 women will experience domestic violence in their life? And here's Sword whose mum probably made him bathe in the kitchen sink whilst she threw beer bottles at him... how can we provide him, and others like him, with the strong male and female role models he needs to avoid becoming a total failiure who dies alone?
Submitted by sword (user info) at 2009-10-14 10:11:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
FALLEN
What about children? What about children who are also women?
Why do you get to dictate the lowest form of a coward?
Why is violence against women worse than violence against men?
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-10-14 10:07:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
EI - If you make a voicewhore and send to me, I'll put music behind it and send it back.
Submitted by FALLEN (user info) at 2009-10-14 10:02:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
violence towards women is the lowest form of coward.
even if it is a song.
Submitted by SgtHartman (user info) at 2009-10-14 09:46:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
did he just say "making fuck"?
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2009-10-14 09:46:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
OLAF, BERSERKER! Girls think sexy!
Submitted by ridiculous (user info) at 2009-10-14 09:08:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
"A" for effort "F" for fucked in the head.
Submitted by TuTs (user info) at 2009-10-14 09:03:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted.
Submitted by EmissionImpossible (user info) at 2009-10-14 08:56:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by F.J.Bell (user info) at 2009-10-14 13:51:45 BST (#)
Ranking: -1
Don't bother. It'll be shit.
--------------
yeah, yeah cool, umm thanks for stopping by
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-10-14 08:55:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by F.J.Bell (user info) at 2009-10-14 08:51:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
Don't bother. It'll be shit.
-----------
It won't be if he does the Kia Ora advert.
Submitted by F.J.Bell (user info) at 2009-10-14 08:51:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
Don't bother. It'll be shit.
Submitted by monkeyswithguns (user info) at 2009-10-14 08:51:41 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I didn't read this, but thought you should know: Last night, I had a dream that I was making a porn video with the character "Suri" from 30 Rock, so when I woke up, I made some baby batter for you to cook up some spermcakes with.
You're welcome.
Submitted by EmissionImpossible (user info) at 2009-10-14 08:50:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
ok, i got my mic for my laptop today......shall i do a voicewhore, if so , what should i say?
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2009-10-14 08:46:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
How sweet
Submitted by Shlongy (user info) at 2009-10-14 08:45:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
It's not reciprocal
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2009-10-14 08:39:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Needs more breastfeeding.
Submitted by SgtHartman (user info) at 2009-10-14 08:17:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
oh and for anyone that wants a laugh..
http://www.fatkidsfalling.com/
Submitted by SgtHartman (user info) at 2009-10-14 08:15:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
holy shit skrap you just made my fucking DAY
this post licks balls, because the poster in fact licks balls.
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2009-10-14 08:01:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I can't hurt you like you hurt me, but I can try.
I'm going to fuck you until you die.
BERSERKER!
Just like you made my heart ache,
I'm going to make your bones break.
BERSERKER!
I want to see you twist
While I love you with my fist.
BERSERKER!
I want to feel you shake
While I learn how much you can take.
BERSERKER!
I want to hear you cry
While I fuck you till you die.
BERSERKER!
I hate that we will soon be through
But I love what I must do.
BERSERKER!
Thinking about your vivisection
Only hardens my errection.
BERSERKER!
Your dark brown eyes, so deep and sweet,
Will stain the floor beneath my feet
BERSERKER!
Your long brown hair I'll gather while you quake
And by the handful I'll extirpate
BERSERKER!
You'll swallow bits of your own teeth
Before I make your throat my dick-sheath
BERSERKER!
Your body, so lithe and firm
Will shudder, tremble and squirm.
BERSERKER!
I'll break your knees, just for fun
And fuck you again, when I'm done.
BERSERKER!
I can't even breathe, your name is all I think
So my cum, mixed with your blood, I'll make you drink.
BERSERKER!
As you drown I'll say good-bye
I'm going to fuck you until you die.
BERSERKER!