Berty asks about America (2178 hits)
Category: PoliticsRating: 0.74 on 195 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by Berty (View user info) at 2007-10-30 05:54:48 EDT
I've recently been reading Hunter S Thompson's The Great Shark Hunt and learned about the case of Ruben Salazar, a journalist killed by police in the Los Angeles riots of 1970. Thus I learned fo the police brutality against the Chicanos, mexican-americans, and the generation of Bato Locos, literally meaning 'crazy guys', who live lives of such violence as to alledgedly make the antics of Alex from Clocwork Orange look rather tame.
All of this I, as an englishman and a foreigner, had no idea about. Nobody on Uber really talks about the race riots and the enormous change and contention that occured not so long ago, and indeed is still going on. A great shame because I believe that this history, this element of American culture, is essential for us outlanders to truly understand America and her people. The race riots and the aftermath seem to embody all that is putrid, corrupt, noble, progressive and cataclysmically radical whithin the American society.
I, like most foreigners on this website, am fascinated by the duality of America. The glorious possibilites and the monstrous cruelty, the great hope and the casualties crushed under the wheel of that hope. Intoxicating.
So I ask you Uber; as American's what are your experiences in the realm of race relations? What are your opinions? Have the tensions between brown and white on the western coast eased or is it still the same powderkeg steaming in the veritable demiliterised zone of the LA Barrios?
User Reviews
Submitted by haikumikoo (user info) at 2007-11-16 11:33:34 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
More young people tend to despise environmentalists and Al Gore, have bigoted beliefs, and blame the poor and disadvantaged for their problems.
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I don't know if that statement can be used as a generalization like that. Seems to me that your friends are just pricks.
Submitted by Jeanneee (user info) at 2007-11-01 21:33:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I really have no insight on the race question, but The Great Shark Hunt is my number one favorite work of literature. I have read it dozens of times, and I re-read it obsessively. It never gets old, in fact it just gets more timely.
Submitted by Axolotl (user info) at 2007-11-01 17:30:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Racism is coming back, maybe I'd say. I see it all as a reflex against the liberal values of the baby boom generation.
Our parent's generation (I'm 17) came of age during the highly liberal 60s and 70s, hippie culture, pot, save the trees, etc. My generation, especially the people I know around me my age, are far more conservative than their parents, and hold liberals and hippies in high disregard. More young people tend to despise environmentalists and Al Gore, have bigoted beliefs, and blame the poor and disadvantaged for their problems.
I just try to keep a balance. I'm a blend of liberal and conservative, though the labels aren't as meaningful with split issues.
Submitted by beat_raven (user info) at 2007-11-01 12:24:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
So this, I thought, was highly ironic.
I went to Target last night to buy a watchband as mine had busted. Little old (as in roughly 103) filipina lady was 'minding' the 'jewelry' counter, so I asked for help with the watch bands.
She toddles over to the case, looks up at me and squints and says "are you americana?" I'm fairly surprised... first, I'm dead white..don't really look ethnic in any way..wasn't dressed up, no weird make-up or anything.. Second "americana?"
Anyhow - I realize she's asking if I'm a US 'native' in the non-indigenous sense, so I say "yes." She proceeds to go on about how she knew it because of my attitude. (mental huh? from me here)
"You see, all the blecks, they think they own the store. For 100 blecks, only 4 are nice. I bin workin here for 20 yrs, white peoples is always nice, but blecks haf attitude, like they my boss"
so there, mr. berty.. is the racism of America.
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-11-01 11:29:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/news_columnists/article/0,1299,DRMN_86_5736232,00.html
Submitted by Unabonger (user info) at 2007-10-31 20:20:33 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I don't know, man. I wasn't raised in a racist family so the simple bigotry that comes so easily to some of my fellow Americans baffles me.
I know poverty is a huge problem and it's difficult to take pride in a neighborhood given to you for next to nothing. I know there are parts of every major city that a white boy like me should avoid.
It's a complete mindfuck but I just stay on my side of the tracks and judge people on a case by case basis.
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2007-10-31 14:53:05 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2007-10-30 18:32:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
That's the problem with America.
Everyone has to be a unique little snowflake. By that, I mean they need to have some sort of look-at-me identity. (i.e. Look at me, I'm black. Look at me, I'm gay. Look at me, I'm Catholic. Look at me, I'm Republican... ad nauseum.) We can't just say that we're Americans.
This problem always has been around, and it isn't going to go away any time soon because there's always some new group to classify yourself into.
_________________________________
Hey, this is fucking DEAD on...
Submitted by monkeyswithguns (user info) at 2007-10-30 19:55:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I don't know about the west coast, and I can't really say much about the 1970's, but in Georgia, now, it's VERY latin.
Georgia, although Atlanta was known as being the city too busy to hate, is fairly racist from what I've seen, especially towards latino/as today, but toward any non white people in general to an extent.
I should mention however, that I live in a somewhat rural area, in a subdivision, but out in the country. I have a list with every single neighbors address, the names of their children, phone numbers, occupations, etc. EXCEPT for the ONE latino family on the block.
I think it's more a language/cultural barrier, than racism, although I have heard the occasional off hand remark at a neighborhood party. I've actually always wanted to meet them, but my spanish is craptastic, and they aren't exactly out meeting the people that live around them either. I can see their house from mine, and they will occasionally throw a party, but they're hardly bad neighbors. I've been tempted to wait until they throw another party, and just get stumble down drunk, and attempt to Spanglish (or Drunkanese) my way in.
I think the east coast is just beginning to see the latino influx that the west coast has had since we knew there was a west coast, and stole it from the natives, and then the Spanish/Mexicans.
Personally I admire their culture, and wish I knew my spanish speaking neighbors.
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2007-10-30 18:51:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I could go on and on about this subject, but I have neither the time nor the energy.
The one interesting thing that I see, is that those Mexican-Americans in the 70s have worked hard and played by the rules for the most part and have assimilated - but there is a new wave of 'immigration-rights' people that want preferential treatment for illegal aliens over Americans.
I'm white, so I'm not affected as much, but for people of color, that's really got to chap their hides...
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2007-10-30 18:32:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
That's the problem with America.
Everyone has to be a unique little snowflake. By that, I mean they need to have some sort of look-at-me identity. (i.e. Look at me, I'm black. Look at me, I'm gay. Look at me, I'm Catholic. Look at me, I'm Republican... ad nauseum.) We can't just say that we're Americans.
This problem always has been around, and it isn't going to go away any time soon because there's always some new group to classify yourself into.
Submitted by Wildman (user info) at 2007-10-30 16:08:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
noone talks about it because noone @ Uber was around back then except me
Submitted by baronMunchausen (user info) at 2007-10-30 14:55:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I'm not American, but being Canadian may as well be in many senses...I have, however, read Hunter's Salazar piece on several occasions-a brilliant look into the dynamics of that pocket of the world. At this point, he already had some firsthand experience of police brutality from a certain political convention-the incident being one which he frequently referred to as one of the if not the most terrifying and hideous events he had ever experienced.
I think that the kind of racist brutality that occurred in LA in those times was only a usual event for LA in those times...that was the reason the Salazar murder was such a big story. Obviously it's still a problem in the country, if not the world-just listen to any black comedian. It basically seems to come down to dumb pigs of cops being dumb pigs of cops, the kind who sign up to use the gun and club and like to feel big and powerful by beating people up. They probably find it more justifiable when it isn't a white person.
Submitted by swamp_donkey (user info) at 2007-10-30 14:52:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
If a minority can't make it in today's America, then they just suck at life.
Submitted by TheUniter (user info) at 2007-10-30 14:37:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
Submitted by redskieslookfake (user info) at 2007-10-30 14:03:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
America has geography. Europe has history.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-10-30 13:46:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
that's why you're charming berty.
Submitted by HadToBeDone (user info) at 2007-10-30 13:23:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2007-10-30 07:53:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Remember Berty, America as a land mass is relatively massive compared to the United Kingdom.
I'm sure McCallum & Crystle out in California have a TOTALLY different view than, say, Hadley, MockIdol and I do here in the Eastern Mid-West. Hell... Ghola, Gravitas, and Simple_Catalyst are down South in Georgia - they probably have a completely different view than Inion and Method up in the Northern East Coast.
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PS, Whiteboy Jihad Misspelling....
Don't ever use my name casually without an explative following it. People might think you don't hate me and want my family to die horribly anymore.
Keep it up and I'll race riot all over that lil bar you work, so help me God. Or my name isn't Negro McBignosenstein.
Submitted by HadToBeDone (user info) at 2007-10-30 13:20:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by beat_raven (user info) at 2007-10-30 13:08:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
yes, yes I have, Muddy. It's slightly north of me.
I am teh mighty post killa! RAWR.
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Careful or I'll kill the whole fucking site. Again.
Just out of spite.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2007-10-30 13:16:42 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Alright, I'm going to have to go home but before I do I'd like to share with you my thoughts from the many contributions to this post for which I'd like to thank you all.
America is a land built on the principle of diversity. Hence why the word freedom is bandied about so much in the constitution and as a national slogan. From the multiple european nationalities at the countries conception, to the multitude of idealogical and racial components of today, there will always be different 'sides' of a neverending struggle.
This is a fundamental keystone in understanding America, for it is from this struggle that so many great ideas, so many progressive ideas, have been born to sweep the world. The produce of this struggle can sometimes be frightening, as the differing ideologies produce terrifying monsters like Charles Manson, Ronald Reagan and Ron Hubbard but it has given us great visionaries like Martin Luther King Jr, George Orwell and Hugh Heffner.
The people of America are dedicated to this struggle, albeit in varying degrees. They cannot help but be caught up in the maelstrom of debate and propaganda that sweeps back and forth across the nation, but it is from this struggle and universal involvement that they get their passion and their energy.
Many outsiders brand the Americans as isolationsist and self obsessed, which are in all frankness quite just accusations. Those outsiders never quite grasp, however, that the American people are constantly polarised over a multitude of issues at any one time from many sources from whithin their own nation. Recent decades have seen the American people's contact with the outside world increase. I have no doubt that as the forces of globalisation and mass communication continue their inevitable march that the global issues will replace some of the older, more defunct debates.
What part America will play on this future stage will be time to tell, but I dare say that energy and passion derived from the building blocks of their culture will leave it's mark. I hope, and believe, that it'll be for the better.
Submitted by DeathJester (user info) at 2007-10-30 13:10:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Berty, you generate heat faster than a Hidden camwhore.
Submitted by beat_raven (user info) at 2007-10-30 13:08:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
yes, yes I have, Muddy. It's slightly north of me.
I am teh mighty post killa! RAWR.
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:52:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
way to kill a post crystle
anyway, i spent some time in your area....ever heard of Pittsburg, CA?
Submitted by beat_raven (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:38:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
in all honesty, there isn't a single place I go to that doesn't have some degree of diversity.
be it hispanic, asian, black, or other - there are always more than two-three-four even cultures present..
and yes, I have often found myself the only white person in a room. Doesn't bother me though. But then, I don't know if that has to do with my parents, or my formative years being spent here in teh SF Bay Area.
I do know that when my family lived in the middle east, we were often the only "whites" in an entirely different way - and that does impact how we interact with the world today.
Not only that, but after a moment of reflection, I realize that now that all my sibligs/cousins/etc have grown and married, we have married so interracially as to have black, mexican, romanian, cuban, dominican, irish, WASP, and various other ethinic mixes as family members. So yeah.. I dont' really see racism evident in my family or in my workplace or even in my grocery store.
The dumbasses where I live, though, do riot when thier football team wins.
And there IS racism on the news - usually in the hearts of the more urban neighborhoods, and interestingly enough, it's usually minority on minority racism.
Submitted by triangle_man (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:38:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
It's all sensationalist propaganda conspired by the commies and evil doers the besmudge the glimmering hope of a progressive democratic society.
or
Everybody has a gun, so you keep your mouth shut unless you're stupid.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:36:22 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by beat_raven (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:32:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Hmmm...
well, as a single white female living in a hugely diverse area, I tend to stay at home, having had bars welded over all the windows.
I order everything delivered, paid over internet or phone by credit card, and tape the envelope with the tip to the front door. Then if the delivary boy isn't white or cute, I yell out to "take the damn money, scrub, and leave my stuff right there" I also have a double barrel shotgun that I make sure they hear through the door.
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Gosh. Is that fo' shizzle?
Submitted by Anansie (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:35:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by beat_raven (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:32:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Hmmm...
well, as a single white female living in a hugely diverse area, I tend to stay at home, having had bars welded over all the windows.
I order everything delivered, paid over internet or phone by credit card, and tape the envelope with the tip to the front door. Then if the delivary boy isn't white or cute, I yell out to "take the damn money, scrub, and leave my stuff right there" I also have a double barrel shotgun that I make sure they hear through the door.
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ahahahahaha
Submitted by FlakMonkey (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:33:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
um... wow?
Submitted by beat_raven (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:33:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
~Crystle
Submitted by beat_raven (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:32:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Hmmm...
well, as a single white female living in a hugely diverse area, I tend to stay at home, having had bars welded over all the windows.
I order everything delivered, paid over internet or phone by credit card, and tape the envelope with the tip to the front door. Then if the delivary boy isn't white or cute, I yell out to "take the damn money, scrub, and leave my stuff right there" I also have a double barrel shotgun that I make sure they hear through the door.
Submitted by FlakMonkey (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:25:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
muddy, there's racism, people have just learned to couch it in PC. my last review makes it sound as though those states i lived in and do now are heavily racist but I merely wanted to point out the racism I saw in the community at the time to demonstrate that it is still something of a concern. I do agree with KK that as the younger generations grow up it dies a little more but it's still out there.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:24:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Berty,
If you are really interested about the mexican population in LA, I suggest you watch "Harsh Times" the most realisit film depiction fo the lives of mexicans in LA.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:24:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
hence we have "don't tase me bro!"
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:22:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Berty, I imagine that Police brutality on a whole is down because no cop wants to be the one on the Rodney King video and almost everyone out there has a cell phone with a camera or video camera or something similar.
Submitted by EmissionImpossible (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:20:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
and to think , all i have to worry about is which little somalian boy carries my briefcase to work.
I choose Boointa because he bakes me cookies when i get home.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:19:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
well no. right now they're just trying to breathe through the smoke.
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:19:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I live in Norwich, CT when I was 13 or so and it was racial mix of 40% white, 40% black and 10% mix...no really racial problems.
In Kentucky as a youth there was racism but even then the intelligent people knew the racists were dipshits.
In Northwestern PA when I graduated we had 2 black kids in the whole school but even still there existed almost no racism at all.
I guess what i'm saying is there doesn't seem to be pattern to it. Also those that are racist just hide it more and more and racists are only really racist or show it when they think they can win.
it is a trait of a coward.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:17:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
What about police brutality amongst the LA Barrios? Does anyone know about that? Is that still going on?
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:16:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:12:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I lived in LA when I was 15. The Hispanics there and then seemed to be more at War with themselves than with any unifying enemy.
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there's a huge albanian problem in cali now. they fight with them.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:15:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:10:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Berty, how can we engage intelligently when you lower yourself to 'the natural order of things' that's like saying "welp, gee golly this he'res the way we always done it" ?
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he can't help it he's english. same reason he does a terrible terrible german accent.
Submitted by ConorJS (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:15:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
The general consensus seems to be that there is no huge, pregnant, racial resentment amongst the Mexican community waiting to sweep the nation like back in the 70's but if Mexican youngsters are still as frighteingly violent as they were then (HST compared their appetite for destruction & violence to the Hells Angels of the time) it's probably indicative of a problem.
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Yeah, pretty much. It's not that every young latino is looking for violence, but by and large, they are ready to dish it out without much provocation. A friend of mine named Will (who is Mexican) fits this profile pretty perfectly. He believes that it is probable that he will go to jail for a violent crime, but he's not about to change.
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:12:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I lived in LA when I was 15. The Hispanics there and then seemed to be more at War with themselves than with any unifying enemy.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:12:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Mostly 'cause I don't want to get drawn off topic BAMF. I want to fundamentaly talk about America rather than possible utopian societies.
Submitted by Anansie (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:11:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
When I was eleven I was choked by a large black girl for accidentally stepping on her filas. I took black women's shoes very seriously after that.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:11:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
The general consensus seems to be that there is no huge, pregnant, racial resentment amongst the Mexican community waiting to sweep the nation like back in the 70's but if Mexican youngsters are still as frighteingly violent as they were then (HST compared their appetite for destruction & violence to the Hells Angels of the time) it's probably indicative of a problem.
I wish BadassJulie or Monty were about. They live in LA and/or are mexican.
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:10:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Berty, how can we engage intelligently when you lower yourself to 'the natural order of things' that's like saying "welp, gee golly this he'res the way we always done it" ?
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:09:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:44:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
racism against white people seems to be ok for some reason...
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I remember senior year in high school seeing a paphlet for scholarship for anyone who had above a 3.0 GPA and 1100 on the SAT. Turns out it was in the wrong stack and only for blacks. I was so mad. I am still mad.
That is blatant racism, pure and simple. Give scholarships for people with grades/SAT's like that from economically depressed areas, from children of single mothers, from any of the countless factors that hurt someone's chances at life, but to give it soley based on race is wrong. I don't think affirmative action is the greatest "racist tragedy" in the US, but it is certainly the most clear cut.
Submitted by EmissionImpossible (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:09:35 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i certainly cant focus on katys foo foo its the size of an elephants anus
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:08:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
can't we focus on someone else's hoohoo for a change?
show me your hole juls.
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:07:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
i think a gorilla and a retard could actually fight IN inion's snatch
Submitted by keitsith (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:06:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Races are gay !
(except for the zergs who don't have sexual orientation anyway..)
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:06:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Gosh, we're really picking up steam now.
Well Flak I appreciate the insight, so don't worry about waxing lyrical. I'd say that you're negative experience with the Injuns was 'cause you'd not grown up around injuns or been around injuns so when you encountered one, in that big old automobile bust up, you had no frame of reference beyond the negative opinion of the white enemy in South Dakota.
BAMF, diversity and dissent is the natural order of things. THat's it. That's why trying to create a world of singular opinion/purpose is as doomed to fall into dark, ugly, shit as trying to control who people breed with or what people think.
Submitted by FlakMonkey (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:06:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
inions snatch would win the fight between the gorilla and the retard.
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:05:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
many americans don't like the mexicans because they get out shined in the work ethic department when the mexican shows up. it's more about laziness and insecurity...labeling them as wetbacks and talking about how they get here illegally is just a diversion.
Submitted by Anansie (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:05:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by JulsInsane (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:02:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
weird to have intellegent conversation on uber
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Give it time. It will eventually descend into a either debate on whether a gorilla or a retard would when in a fight or a mockfest of inion's snatch.
Submitted by EmissionImpossible (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:02:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Brazils nuts
Submitted by JulsInsane (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:02:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
weird to have intellegent conversation on uber
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:02:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
and the german girl thinks the polish girl and the czech girl are probably sluts.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:00:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
actually i'm going to go a little farther. currently in one of my classes about half the people going are hispanic, half born in south america, the other half from a few spots. there is one of each of the following: peruvian, puerto rican, costa rican, mexican, argentinian and something else i can't remember.
every one of them thinks mexicans are nuts (cept the mexican of course) and all agree colombians are insane. somehow this got discussed because of music.
so consensus in a small group is, mexico is probably nuts, colombia is definitely nuts.
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2007-10-30 12:00:23 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
It's human nature to be prejudiced and discriminatory (probably an evolutionary survival behavior). Although there isn't necessarily anything wrong with that, it is allowing it to mutate into hate and fear that's the problem. And it's so easy to let that happen. I think that's why it is so hard to eliminate racism, because you are trying to change the nature of humans.
And that's next to impossible.
I think humans have to evolve to the next level before this problem will be fixed.
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:59:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Good post Berty, if I hadn't mentioned it earlier.
Submitted by FlakMonkey (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:57:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
sorry for the incredibly long winded review. But looking at it i can shorten it and say that I've encountered racism everywhere I've lived but in different forms or to different extents or toward different minorities.
I think the outside world has a hard time grasping how incredibly diverse this country is. The rest of the world makes generalizations about american tourists. We make generalizations about tourists from other states. here we have flat lander friday when all the Fucking Illinois Bastards (FIBs)come to Illinois State park (WI) on the weekends.
~Brdn_Nkd
Submitted by JulsInsane (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:56:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Also the seperation between rights and beliefs is very skewed here in the US. Morality and religion are different principals. To want a moral government that is just in asserting the rights of the individuals is different than following the edicts of a religion and asserting beliefs on individuals. Being Pro-Life does not mean you will ever have an abortion or even agree with them, its the idea that it is a right to control over one's body outside the assertion of beliefs.
I do think racism seems quite prolific here in the US bc I think people are far more verbal about it, I honestly believe that at least in Ireland racism is far worse. What is worse is they don't recognise thier own racist tendancies, whereas on the whole I think the average American will admit to a modicum of racist thoughts and ideas even if they are not proud of it.
Submitted by EmissionImpossible (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:55:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
ive never met a mexican, but ive eaten mexican rice :)
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:54:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
mexican machismo is nuts.
Submitted by FlakMonkey (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:52:40 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
actually katy makes a good point. i've certainly been discriminated against when out and about in the country but that's perfectly acceptable and to call someone out on it would make ME the racist.
~Brdn_Nkd
Submitted by ConorJS (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:51:20 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2007-10-30 07:31:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
*waves tiny fists in the air*
MEXICANS! TELL ME ABOUT MEXICANS!
=====================
As a community, they don't bitch and moan all that much, and they don't really give too much of a shit about California and Texas and all, they care about labor, and they tend to vote based on their Catholicism.
On and individual level, DON'T... fuck with them. Seriously, don't piss off a short Mexican. The latino male is tough as nails and virtually fearless - if they're small, however, they feel like they have to prove this. Of four people I know who have been stabbed, two were by short Mexicans, one pissed off an Angel or something, and the other was fucking around with a buddy while drunk, so it doesn't really count.
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:50:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:48:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
guess that's my job as white devil.
===========
Equinsuacha
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:49:15 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:37:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Oh right, I guess we have different definitions of the word 'few'. Things look perfectly peachy to me on a general race front, but the governments attitude to terrorism is making me think there's really gonna be a problem with islam if things don't change.
There was a place informally known as 'terrorist HQ' some slummy little house with some nut spouting off conspiracy theories and claming islam was being oppressed. These days it looks an awful lot like islam is being oppressed, and the slummy little house has had a huge extension and big railings all round and cage-reinforced windows on ground level and a lot of muslims who take their religion more seriously go there instead of the 'official' mosque. It worries me, I think the govt. is fucking up big time on terrorism, but there ain't no party wanting to do anything different.
------------------
That is my point. In general it is peachy, you hear a few news stories, but in general people are pretty civil to each other (at least equally as civil, regardless of race). Of course there are exceptions, and rallying points that give losers with no life something to blame.
How is Islam opressed in the UK? What do you suggest be done?
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:48:37 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
guess that's my job as white devil.
Submitted by EmissionImpossible (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:46:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
uh oh katys stirring things up
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:44:51 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
racism against white people seems to be ok for some reason...
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:43:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:37:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Well said Juls, now imagine if we could get all facets to come to an agreement on some things, a compromise on all behalves...Imagine how much stronger of a country we could be. But like I said some people exist in our country solely to perpetuate the division amongst us.
----------------
Division is the natural order of things BAMF, without division we descend into totalitarianism.
==========
But why do we have to 'descend' into anything? Specifically some terminology that means fuck all to me?
Why can't we ASCEND into something that has never happened before where people are allowed to have their own beliefs and feelings and we can calmly yet passionately debate but before we leave the room make a decision that benefits the whole...isn't that the idea behind our government and does it really fucking happen?
There is a difference between thought and action, we can think differently than one another but we can also agree on the good of the whole and act accordingly but know, as Americans or maybe as humans as a whole we are far too sensitive and prideful to say 'hey my idea really only helps me so um...that's not going to work..what've you got to add?'
Submitted by shadow (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:40:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I didn't know I was white unitl I was six years old. I had no idea there was a difference, nor did I know that my best buds, Jill, Courtney, and Thomas were all black.
I didn't have a clue.
Unitl field day came to the elementary school and Courtney's mom saw us playing together. She told her little girl not to play with children who had "light eyes" in blue or green. Later she told her daughter not to play with kids had "light skin" anything lighter than a paper bag, except for cousin Sammy of course, it's not his fault he was born yellow.
So Courtney stopped playing with me and took Jill with her. Thomas still wanted to play with them, so he was gone too. I lost all my friends. I didn't understand why, and in a way I still don't.
I know it's not as exciting as getting beaten by police with billy-clubs whilst running for your life, but I still remember how Courtney innocently said to me, her big brown eyes aglow, "my mom says you can't play over here 'cause your eyes are too light." I remember the confusion. And I remember wishing that I could play again.
I suppose much more interesting things happened later, there was a smallish "race riot" at my second High School in the parking lot, rednecks vs the ghetto rats. The rest of us hid in the band room when the police came and arrested three students, two of which had guns. Then I moved to the city... but those things didn't faze me as much as losing my buds to racism in second grade.
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:37:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Oh right, I guess we have different definitions of the word 'few'. Things look perfectly peachy to me on a general race front, but the governments attitude to terrorism is making me think there's really gonna be a problem with islam if things don't change.
There was a place informally known as 'terrorist HQ' some slummy little house with some nut spouting off conspiracy theories and claming islam was being oppressed. These days it looks an awful lot like islam is being oppressed, and the slummy little house has had a huge extension and big railings all round and cage-reinforced windows on ground level and a lot of muslims who take their religion more seriously go there instead of the 'official' mosque. It worries me, I think the govt. is fucking up big time on terrorism, but there ain't no party wanting to do anything different.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:37:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Well said Juls, now imagine if we could get all facets to come to an agreement on some things, a compromise on all behalves...Imagine how much stronger of a country we could be. But like I said some people exist in our country solely to perpetuate the division amongst us.
----------------
Division is the natural order of things BAMF, without division we descend into totalitarianism.
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:37:00 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
post another review that long again barry and you'll get flakmonkey banned too...I'm fucking warning you, yeti.
Submitted by FlakMonkey (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:36:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
holy shit that's long
oops
~Brdn_Nkd
Submitted by FlakMonkey (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:36:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I have not made it through all the reviews but thought I'd offer my perspective. I'ved lived all over the states and briefly in iceland. in Iceland I lived on an air force base. The military is sometimes very diverse and as a child I was soon accustomed to people of different race and therefore have not grown up harboring hatred or bigotry. I think that comes from having two parents who were concious of making me and my siblings understand that people are people no matter what color/shape they are.
In Texas the racism I saw there confused me, I was a young boy who'd already had ideas of color blindness instilled in me by my parents. I'm certain that I was insulated from some of the strongest outward racism because again I lived on the base but racism toward blacks and mexicans was certainly viewable out in the open.
In Nebraska I lived in Omaha, one of the two biggest cities in the state. There was a large population of african americans and there certainly was some bigotry but it's not the openly abrasive racism you would encounter in texas instead it's the midwest's more subdued bigotry. I'll come back to that midwest bigotry to try to explain as I can use my current location best.
In South Dakota there exists a strange dichotomy of racism. first there's some general initial mistrust of african americans that is eaasily overcome if the person joins society as a productive member. There are few african americans in South Dakota so exposure to them is infrequent. The open, hostile racism in South Dakota is directed to the native americans, particularly the sioux. It's funny because as I said I was raised to ignore social prejiduce and racism and take each person for who they present themselves to be, after all, there are certainly white pieces of shit to be encountered every day. So here I am, once again a transplant to the area, and there is a papable distrust and general hatred of the native americans in the area. the stereotypes involve alcoholics, govt welfare abusing, free housing, free education and still they make nothing of themselves. and this is where it gets tricky. sadly the majority of the native americans that people encounter will live up to some or all of the stereo type. Now that statement could be an indictment to indicate that I myself harbor those feelings.
I was in a car accident with a native american. he tried to run, he was drunk, he did not have insurance. I contacted him directly first and offered to make a payment agreement, he agreed, I brought him a contract and he refused to sign because he said there was no way he could come up with the little I asked of him per month to repay his debt. I then tried to take it through legal channels and eventually a judegement was awarded in my favor because he never showed in court. an order of execution was set up so that a sherrif could try to sieze assets or make arrangements with mr. emerson black bonnet and the sherrif began to track him down. The sherrif did eventually locate mr. black bonnet but was unable to persue him any further. Mr. black bonnet had run to and taken refuge at one of the many reservations in SD. The tribes are soviergn nations and the reservations are governed by them as such therefore the state has no jurisdiction. there certainly are cases where the state can get a tribe to cooperate when it comes to recapturing a criminal but the tribes are always reluctant and it almost always seems only the violent cases that the tribes bend on, after all do they really want a murderer in thier community?
Having said all that I can honestly say that this one individual certainly affected me. I found that i was having an easier time hearing the bigotry projected at the whole group of native americans and realised that I was going to have to work at it to be able to approach new encounters without letting that poisonous bigotry affect those new encounters. It's funny, i've had bad experiences with african americans, white people and asians but this one incident coupled with all that you could see around you, in your face, regarding the sioux of the area was enough to rock my previously steadfast view that people are people. The native americans are an interesting case here berty. they are afforded great opportunities, there's a duality to thier citezenship that grants them even more opportunities, but they've faced incredible hardship and adversity too. you could spend a lot of time learning about just the sioux and not even begin to comprehend it because that's one tribe of so many just in S.D. not to mention the rest of the country.
My experience in Colorado and Arizona is similar. The african americans really are part of the community of people and then there are the mexicans. There is a lot of open hostility toward the mexicans in part because so many of them have come to settle illegaly and do not always know how to incorporate themselves into society productively. imagine trying to move into a country where you do not speak or read the language and then try to funtcion as well as you do at home? it's kind of amazing really when you see the succesful imigrants because they have overcome much to be able to integrate and become americans.
And now here I am living in Wisconsin. I have frankly been amazed at the level of open racism I've encountered here. I live in a metro area of about 400k people, this isn't the sticks, but sometimes I feel like I'm up north in hick land. I say that and it sounds as though there's a ton of people walking around talking shit about one race or another but it's not like that as a whole, I've just been really surprised i guess because i haven't encountered the open ly blatant racism I've seen before. strange really. Madison is a strangely diverse city so i guess that's just more reason that it surprises me. it's a large university town and a huge medical research town so there are many different ethinic groups represented here.
i got distracted from this book i've just written so i'll leave off here cause I know not all of it is cohesive since i was being interrupted. if something in particualr interests you berty let me know.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:35:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I don't think it was as bad as some of the ones we had int he 50's or 70's, but shops were smached people were hurt, even killed, and it was down racial lines. I would call those race riots.
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:33:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by JulsInsane (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:24:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I think the representation of America abroad is unfair though, though this bad PR is in part self created. Americans as individuals are a sum of the parts of the stereotype, the gun toting conservative, the dirty hippie bleeding heart liberal all exists within the spectrum of American politics and culture but on a far more homogonized level than is portrayed in the media. Creating a polarization of issues is something that candidates do to gain voter loyalty and media to create sensationalism. Whereas hotbutton issues like gay marriage, abortion, and stem cell research is a lot more gray for most individuals. That being said someone is blowing up abortion clinics and picketing gay parades so the extreme does exist but we have created that as a representation of America. Knee jerk patriotism has gone further to do damage for relations with those abroad than anything else. Its that idea that if youre not with us youre against us, whereas the individual questions the motives and policies of the American government quite frequently. America needs a new PR firm.
==========
Well said Juls, now imagine if we could get all facets to come to an agreement on some things, a compromise on all behalves...Imagine how much stronger of a country we could be. But like I said some people exist in our country solely to perpetuate the division amongst us.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:32:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Indoninja, it really wasn't that bad.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:31:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Well I'd say that any "negative press" comes from a failiure of outsiders to understand Americans and America than any intrinsic 'failing'.
People in England, for example, fail to grasp the social ramifications of not living on top of one another in a seething human hive. Thus they can relate to, say, residents of New York City but are utterly baffled by, say, people living in Loisiana.
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:27:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
sorry berty, i didn't take it a criticism but sometimes i get lost in my responses and forget where i started.
Submitted by JulsInsane (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:24:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I think the representation of America abroad is unfair though, though this bad PR is in part self created. Americans as individuals are a sum of the parts of the stereotype, the gun toting conservative, the dirty hippie bleeding heart liberal all exists within the spectrum of American politics and culture but on a far more homogonized level than is portrayed in the media. Creating a polarization of issues is something that candidates do to gain voter loyalty and media to create sensationalism. Whereas hotbutton issues like gay marriage, abortion, and stem cell research is a lot more gray for most individuals. That being said someone is blowing up abortion clinics and picketing gay parades so the extreme does exist but we have created that as a representation of America. Knee jerk patriotism has gone further to do damage for relations with those abroad than anything else. Its that idea that if youre not with us youre against us, whereas the individual questions the motives and policies of the American government quite frequently. America needs a new PR firm.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:24:17 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I am well aware of Hunter's unreliability. However, I have reason to believe that his general anxiety over of hanging around with Chicano thugs coupled with his outrage of the sloppy police whitewash over Salazar's murder actually caused a lapse into professional journalism.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:21:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:07:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
depends on your definition of a race riot....does some sikhs getting pissed at another sikh who wrote a play count? or those anti-anti-islam cartoon protests?
I don't reckon there's anything that you could call a riot no....although there was a muslim vs local black gang thing a while back over some girl getting raped...I dunno, but I'd say no...no race riots.
----------------
Oldham Riots weren;t race riots?
You mention a muslim vs local black gang "thing", but from what I read it was a lot more than gangs involved. There were community "leaders" and phamplets calling for boycotts all leading up to violence.
Things don't look that peachy in the UK.
Submitted by icanbecool (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:15:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
I don't recommend using Hunter S. Thompson for a source. Though, in this case he is right.
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:14:50 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Anansie (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:07:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Funny, I was living in a state of crisis and I didn't even realize it. You talk as if we're all polarized on one issue or another and screaming and shooting over it. Most people I know just want to keep a reasonable standard of living. They keep their heads down and their bills paid and occasionally throw out their more controversial opinions only in a room where it's safe to do so.
That's my region, anyway.
============
I listen to a radio show almost everyday and the intro is the host talking and he says something along the lines of this:
"the world is so caught up in PC and peoples sensitivities and psychological ailments and putting blame on one another and so on and and OH MY GOD I HAVE TO SEE A THERAPIST. You know what they used to call therapists back in the day...friends, family, people that you care about, people that care about you. People you can talk to and yes you may say something that offends someone but you recognize it, maybe apologize, and you move on'"
that is the gist.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:14:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
It wasn't a criticism BAMF. If anything I see the polarisation of the American people as an amazing thing when compared to the borderline atrophy of Europe. Whilst many have said that Americans don't care about a lot of things the point is that they CAN care a great deal. In England people might express intrest about issues and things but galvanising the populace in the same way is very difficult. In fact if it hadn't been for the war protests I'd say it was impossible.
America though, Americans, can be moved to feel which is a great strength.
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:11:32 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
*look to
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:10:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:01:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Okay, here's another forign perception of the American character.
America has for the past 80 years existed in a state of perpetual crisis. From the aftermath of the first world war right through to the present day the populace has been in uproar over one issue or another.
Now to compare this with my homeland of Great Britian we had that whole palaver of the two great wars, the lesser palaver of the cold war (where everyone just assumed that they were imminently going to be turned into superheated steam) and then a period from the 70's onward of general socio-economic depression up to the present day.
The obvious statement about that is to blame the media for being weilded like a great hammer, but this is a cultural imperative as much as an economic one. Crisis galvanises the American people in a way that appears genuinly different to other nations. In Britian; crisis results in enormous criticsm being heaped on instutions. Those in high office fear this dangerous phenomenon and very few have attempted to wield it as a political or social tool, although of course there are exceptions (such as Thatcher). Anway, it's generally not something that works too well.
In the US it is different. Even though the media outlets are private sector industries, or perhaps because of that, the national anxiety and paniced action seems to be more tightly controlled. Perhaps it is because of the scale of the country? As Kaos rightly states; America is vast. All the states are akin to a country in and of themselves and I believe that whilst we of the rest of the world see the federal news and political motions we are ignorant of what is happeneing at the regional level.
Any thoughts?
============
To start I would to the comparative ages of our countries.
I had a conversation with an Irish woman in which said to me 'America is such a young country, still trying to find its place in the world. Trying and succeeding, trying and failing but overall trying to do the right thing.'
I thought it was a pretty good insight into America.
There have to be issues, silly Berty, or we wouldn't need so many police, so many news reporters, so many politicians, so many officials...oh wait....no we don't.
We have so many people in this country whose jobs exist solely to exist and in order to justify them they HAVE to create issues. What needs to happen is a little trimming of the fat and in time and as a country we will. Engerland has had how many more years to come to grips with itself as a country, its borders and boundaries...what it needs and what it doesn't need?
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:09:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
In answer to the question on race riots in the UK, there have been but not in the same sense as the ones in the US. They WERE race riots in that they were sparked by racial motivations, however the scale was far, far, far smaller. In birmingham there was a 'race riot' a year or two ago between Jamaican and Indian communities in the Handsworth area. It ammounted to a car being set on fire, a street being closed down for a night and bunch of bruised teenagers in the hospital swearing at one another.
It's unfair to compare the two cases though. The population density of the united kingdom, particularly the midlands, means that racial integration is much more inevitable and therefore a bit more managable. Or rather I should say it forces regional powers to deal with the issues more immediatly than in the US where it is possible to just bung people in a huge area and forget about them untill catastrophe occurs. Believe me though, if it was possible to do that here I'm sure we would have done.
Submitted by EmissionImpossible (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:07:57 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Ok i may contribute here, children as we know are at there most honest between birth and possibly 6 years old, mainly dues to parents influence, televison experience and school. Therefore I can the majority of time when someone on here is lying in that 'lying competiion' because there are signs, such as over elobarition of phrases, lots of question marks,padding a story with too much detail etc etc
Children are amazing because they will tell you if you have a spot on your forehead or are looking tired but a great majority of adults wont, this is why lots of people feel uneasy being around children because of their nack of being right and honest.
This has nothing to do with race but im sure I could turn it into that, i.e the difference between black kids and white kids blah blah blah.
Scientists hate psychology because they cant bare to be wrong.
Submitted by Anansie (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:07:28 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Funny, I was living in a state of crisis and I didn't even realize it. You talk as if we're all polarized on one issue or another and screaming and shooting over it. Most people I know just want to keep a reasonable standard of living. They keep their heads down and their bills paid and occasionally throw out their more controversial opinions only in a room where it's safe to do so.
That's my region, anyway.
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:07:19 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
"Correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't England had race riots in the past few years?"
depends on your definition of a race riot....does some sikhs getting pissed at another sikh who wrote a play count? or those anti-anti-islam cartoon protests?
I don't reckon there's anything that you could call a riot no....although there was a muslim vs local black gang thing a while back over some girl getting raped...I dunno, but I'd say no...no race riots.
Submitted by CaptainThorns (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:01:36 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2007-10-30 05:21:43 CDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I have found that the younger the individual, the LESS likey they are to have any racial prejudices.
--------------------------
True, if you don't factor in cognitive-behavioral modeling by their parents during childhood development. Parents' attitudes and examples, from my work experiences and personal observations, are by far the largest influence on a child.
Interesting thread.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:01:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Okay, here's another forign perception of the American character.
America has for the past 80 years existed in a state of perpetual crisis. From the aftermath of the first world war right through to the present day the populace has been in uproar over one issue or another.
Now to compare this with my homeland of Great Britian we had that whole palaver of the two great wars, the lesser palaver of the cold war (where everyone just assumed that they were imminently going to be turned into superheated steam) and then a period from the 70's onward of general socio-economic depression up to the present day.
The obvious statement about that is to blame the media for being weilded like a great hammer, but this is a cultural imperative as much as an economic one. Crisis galvanises the American people in a way that appears genuinly different to other nations. In Britian; crisis results in enormous criticsm being heaped on instutions. Those in high office fear this dangerous phenomenon and very few have attempted to wield it as a political or social tool, although of course there are exceptions (such as Thatcher). Anway, it's generally not something that works too well.
In the US it is different. Even though the media outlets are private sector industries, or perhaps because of that, the national anxiety and paniced action seems to be more tightly controlled. Perhaps it is because of the scale of the country? As Kaos rightly states; America is vast. All the states are akin to a country in and of themselves and I believe that whilst we of the rest of the world see the federal news and political motions we are ignorant of what is happeneing at the regional level.
Any thoughts?
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-10-30 11:00:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2007-10-30 10:56:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
rise of BNP dn't mean a rise in racists, it's just the 'PC gone mad' shit in this country....people are starting voting for the BNP cos they're the only party that will even discuss certain issues.
---------------
I think they are getting support for both reasons, more racists and 'PC gone mad'.
Correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't England had race riots in the past few years?
Submitted by DCWoody (user info) at 2007-10-30 10:56:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
rise of BNP dn't mean a rise in racists, it's just the 'PC gone mad' shit in this country....people are starting voting for the BNP cos they're the only party that will even discuss certain issues.
But the leaders of the BNP are cunts yes.
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-10-30 10:52:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
its ok though, she's way smarter than I ever was and I didn't start understanding life and my role in it until I was 24 so she's got a few years to gain some shitty experience
Submitted by Anansie (user info) at 2007-10-30 10:50:54 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Oh man, Gotti and Capone. My goodness.
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-10-30 10:48:29 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
yeah pitbulls....i mean can you fit more snuggly into a stereotype?
that and she weighs like 100lbs sopping wet = unable to stop the dogs if something went wrong.
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-10-30 10:47:30 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
hahaha..Shlongy...we all do somewhere down the line.
for my sake, she had a different father.
Submitted by Anansie (user info) at 2007-10-30 10:46:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-10-30 10:42:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Anansie - my sister is caught up in that realm. she's 21 and living on her own in KY with her boyfriend. Ever few months I have to threaten some 20 year old Wigger with his life to get them to leave her alone. Then she turns around and gets 2 pitbulls...names one Gotti and one Capone.
All I can do is call her a dipshit and shake my head.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pitbulls? Oh man...
Submitted by Anansie (user info) at 2007-10-30 10:45:39 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
No one in my family will call themselves racist, they don't use the n word (although I know my uncle does in his own home, I just know it), but the older ones are definitely racist to a degree.
None of the children/grandchildren are racist though. I guess that supports KK's theory.
In another story, one of my closest friends, a Korean, worked for rentacenter as one of his shitty jobs before he got his shit together. This was fairly recently. He went to repossess a mattress at a black family's house and they each (about six of them) took turns coming out onto the front walk and calling him a "bitch-ass nyuggah" as he and his coworker loaded up the truck. They even sent their little girl, who couldn't have been older than four, to do it. They had a debate right in front of him over whether he was a "Jackie-Chan-lookin' bitch-ass nyuggah" or a "Jet-Li-lookin' muthafuckin' bitch-ass nyuggah." They decided he was the latter. Stories like that boggle the mind.
Submitted by Shlongy (user info) at 2007-10-30 10:44:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Hahahahahaha BAMF has white trash in his DNA...
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-10-30 10:42:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Anansie - my sister is caught up in that realm. she's 21 and living on her own in KY with her boyfriend. Ever few months I have to threaten some 20 year old Wigger with his life to get them to leave her alone. Then she turns around and gets 2 pitbulls...names one Gotti and one Capone.
All I can do is call her a dipshit and shake my head.
Submitted by Anansie (user info) at 2007-10-30 10:40:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-10-30 07:46:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
what will really blow your mind is when you get to the south and begin unearthing the Double-Reverse Hypocritical Racism. When you have little white boys running around claiming, on some level, an African affiliation and 'representin' in the face of control and order and then with backs turned scream nigger in the oh so not 'nigga' way.
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Tell me about it, man.
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-10-30 10:38:12 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
sorry, replace 'Politics' with 'Racism'
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-10-30 10:33:48 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Juls makes good points...want to know how to rile up the Americans...mention the words 'Terrorist' '9-11' or 'Politics' in a news story and immediately everyone's hackles stand up and they feel the need to begin defending their opinions and calling out those that don't fall in line with them.
Submitted by DrogoRoch (user info) at 2007-10-30 10:32:43 EDT (#)
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Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2007-10-30 10:30:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
In other news my teeth are falling out of my head and I'm freaking out.
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Oh SHit dont bring up British teeth issues Berty, you know how those crazy yankies get about thier fake teeth.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2007-10-30 10:30:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
In other news my teeth are falling out of my head and I'm freaking out.
Submitted by JulsInsane (user info) at 2007-10-30 10:25:27 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2007-10-30 07:12:49 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
1 - MudWhistle is kinda right. I think that he's correct for the most part when it comes to adults. However, I think American youth have little to be bothered with racism. I dunno...
2 - There's a BIG and widening gap when it comes to the Liberal VS Conservative view here in the States. There shouldn't be, but I blame the media for that. Yellow journalistic propaganda is reaching a point almost as high as it did during the Hearst era.
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The media in the US is ridiculous, specifically liberal media. We have people like Michael Moore and Sean Penn representing the left and mucking it all up to hell. Ann Coulter is a cunt smear but she debates in such a manner as to never get flustered and allow her adversary to start frothing at the mouth with anger and talk themselves into circles. If the left represented themselves with concise and intellegent people who support thier veiws based on hard facts and less grandeous generalizations I think more people would be willing to support the left point of view. Its such a polarized mentality despite the fact that the average American resides a lot closer to the middle.
Submitted by apollo88 (user info) at 2007-10-30 10:19:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I like it.
Houston is segregated along economic lines. Outside of supermarkets etc I don't really see black people unless they are parking my car.
Then I don't really 'see' them.
They don't go to the same bars. restaurants, movie theaters, bowling alleys. It's odd.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-10-30 10:18:43 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-10-30 09:53:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
no, but i live in connecticut and in fairfield county on top of that. i could make a very good case for rich parents not giving a flying fuck about what their kids do in school considering they hire other people to raise their children. ct's supposed to be one of the top states for education and we have more money than most states to throw at problems like this. that's why i took my hometown as an example because i firmly believe it's a good representation about wealth discrepancy being a problem.
no, in most places the kids don't benefit from just getting a little more money per student. but here there's a HUGE gap between the richest (multimillionaires) and the poorest (welfare). when it comes to money we're doing better than average compared to the rest of the country, by a lot.
my state actually can bridge the gap between rich and poor and give opportunities to everyone just be effective management of taxes and a very slight increase to the top 2% of our earners.
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I used to live in trumbull, I know what you mean, but you take half the mony from trumbull and slide it over to some highschool in bridgeport so they have the same money per student, and trumbull would still have been a better high school.
For every spoiled kid who wastes his parents money on clothes and drugs there are three kids who want to go to Brown, MIT or Yale. Kids may be much more likely to be spoiled ignorant brats, but they knew they needed good grades to get into college, so they could enjoy that 4 yr party and get a job with dad's friends.
Submitted by EmissionImpossible (user info) at 2007-10-30 10:00:03 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
You, typos??never!
ahem hehe
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-10-30 09:58:02 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
yeah yeah typos.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-10-30 09:53:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-10-30 09:28:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-10-30 09:14:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
so my hometown is doing this thing where they bus kids in from other school districts at the middle school level just so there's more racial diversity but also so that poor kids have the same education as the rich kids. so basically instead of just putting the money into improving all school districts so that they're equally educational and present the same opportunities they're just spending it on buses and drivers, and any other cost associated with this really stupid idea.
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While it is true that in the US the #1 prediction of how well you are going to do in life is how much money your parents make, the amount of money spent on your school doesn't have a strong tie to how good the school is. Look at DC. The amount they spend per student there is # 1 in the country (for public schools) but most of the schools are complete shit, and they are dead last in public school rankings. Unless you have paretns who care about how their kids do in school, it doesn;t matter how much money they throw at the problem.
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no, but i live in connecticut and in fairfield county on top of that. i could make a very good case for rich parents not giving a flying fuck about what their kids do in school considering they hire other people to raise their children. ct's supposed to be one of the top states for education and we have more money than most states to throw at problems like this. that's why i took my hometown as an example because i firmly believe it's a good representation about wealth discrepancy being a problem.
no, in most places the kids don't benefit from just getting a little more money per student. but here there's a HUGE gap between the richest (multimillionaires) and the poorest (welfare). when it comes to money we're doing better than average compared to the rest of the country, by a lot.
http://www.fedstats.gov/qf/states/09000.html
Median household income, 2004 (ct) $56,617 (usa)$44,334
Median household income, 2004 (fairfield county)$60,790 (ct)$56,617
Median household income, 1999 (new haven, as in yale)$29,604 $53,935
my state actually can bridge the gap between rich and poor and give opportunities to everyone just be effective management of taxes and a very slight increase to the top 2% of our earners.
Submitted by EmissionImpossible (user info) at 2007-10-30 09:48:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
thats once ive had a go.
Submitted by Shlongy (user info) at 2007-10-30 09:46:44 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
YES. A SHINY ONE.
Submitted by MANICMOTHER (user info) at 2007-10-30 09:41:10 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I started writing a reply, but with Detroit hosting it's OWN race riot in'67 and bizzar race make-up of today's Metro Detroit, it turned into a post long comment. I'm not with that so if you're interested drop me an e-mail at manicmother1.at.hotmail. I'm sure I could clear a few things up.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-10-30 09:28:04 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-10-30 09:14:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
so my hometown is doing this thing where they bus kids in from other school districts at the middle school level just so there's more racial diversity but also so that poor kids have the same education as the rich kids. so basically instead of just putting the money into improving all school districts so that they're equally educational and present the same opportunities they're just spending it on buses and drivers, and any other cost associated with this really stupid idea.
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While it is true that in the US the #1 prediction of how well you are going to do in life is how much money your parents make, the amount of money spent on your school doesn't have a strong tie to how good the school is. Look at DC. The amount they spend per student there is # 1 in the country (for public schools) but most of the schools are complete shit, and they are dead last in public school rankings. Unless you have paretns who care about how their kids do in school, it doesn;t matter how much money they throw at the problem.
Submitted by ConorJS (user info) at 2007-10-30 09:27:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
It's "vatos locos" - watch bound by honor, it rocks.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-10-30 09:14:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
so my hometown is doing this thing where they bus kids in from other school districts at the middle school level just so there's more racial diversity but also so that poor kids have the same education as the rich kids. so basically instead of just putting the money into improving all school districts so that they're equally educational and present the same opportunities they're just spending it on buses and drivers, and any other cost associated with this really stupid idea. so now they just make some rich white kids dumber (which at this point i'm finding hard to do) and some poor not white kids smarter. but then when they get to highschool they go back to their own districts and then upon graduation from that the rich white kids still go to college on their parents' dime and the poor not white kids still don't have the same opportunities. good example of a failed social experiment.
racism is an odd thing in this country. people tend to separate themselves based on self-imposed social norms. and while that looks like an oxymoron, people still define their own society or choose which niche they're going to belong to. even the most accepting person will still mostly stick with people that resemble themselves. it's like a bizarre form of narcissism.
i think it's more about extreme distinction between economic classes causing problems. trash comes in every color and, in a few notable cases, tax bracket but that really doesn't stop the division between haves and have nots. at least in large cities. it's a little different in smaller towns, but then racial variety doesn't show up as much in the flyover states as it does in large urban areas.
wtf does it matter anyway? people will always find a reason to hate each other, and the sociopathic top of the food chain will always find a reason to divide the people below it in order to keep a certain standard of life. take obama v clinton, if they're both fighting for the same party head, why not run together? our opinions of them are a means to an end as they try to tell us they have the most altruistic intentions at heart for everyone. but hilary plays up the female vote and obama the black vote.
and i refuse to say african american cuz they ain't all african.
Submitted by Director (user info) at 2007-10-30 09:08:46 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Racism in America works both ways. I've been called a honkey, cracker, white-boy, clansman, goy, etc., etc., etc...a whole hell of a lot more than I've ever called anyone a nigger, kike, spic, etc.
But that's mostly coz I'm afeerd a gettin' beat up.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-10-30 08:57:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-10-30 08:48:06 EDT (#)
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you're right indo, my generalization of the south was a little broad there. what i meant was i've lived in areas, mostly ones in the south, where racism was loud and proud but to be fair it's mostly as it is here in NJ...underlying.
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I don't know if I would go with underlying. Kind of gives the impression it is everywhere, which it isn't.
Race relations in the US have gotten a lot better, but it has gotten to a point where you can't talk about it unless you tow the NAACP, al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson line without being called a racist. Look at Bill Cosby. If I said what he said, I would be called a racist.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2007-10-30 08:51:01 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Well BAMF I was going to ask "as a whole", but thinking about it it'd be rather difficult. Perhaps you could comment on people you know personally?
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-10-30 08:48:06 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
you're right indo, my generalization of the south was a little broad there. what i meant was i've lived in areas, mostly ones in the south, where racism was loud and proud but to be fair it's mostly as it is here in NJ...underlying.
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-10-30 08:45:18 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
its funny you ask about identity because i've thought a lot about it lately. I was actually mentally preparing a post called "Excuse Me While I Slip Into My Stereotype" essentially discussing identity in the US.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-10-30 08:45:07 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-10-30 07:06:31 EDT (#)
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i think that racism doesn't exist more or less depending on where you live, the levels are same no matter what. What changes is its outward acknowledgment. When I lived in the south it existed there and no one tried to hide it. Now that I live in NJ, possibly one of the most diversely ethnic areas in America, I find that it exists still but is stifled by common sense...if that makes any sense.
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Where did you live in "the south"?
I lived in the panhandle of florida, and the sticks of Virginia and Maryland. I would see plenty of people with confederate flags who would never drop an n-bomb and were fine with black people. In NJ or the "north" the confederate flag was almost always only shown by racists, and people in general were a lot more vocal with being against x race. When I was in california I was pretty young, and don't remember much racism other than my dad telling me to be careful of the cholo's, advice which our mexican neighbor agreed with. Since I have been back it has only been short stays, mostly filled with benders in TJ so the only racism I saw was federales trying to rip off touristas.
It is hard for me to take a post like this seriously coming from a country that seems to be having quite a few race problems of its own. Hasn't there been a few race riots in recent years in the UK? Look at the growth of the BNP. The most "racist" group in the US that is growing and gets any support is the minutemen, and all they want is for the US to enforce its immigration laws.
I saw a lot more racism living overseas then I ever saw in the US, but I never lived in a "western" country, so I wouldn't judge them on the same standard.
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2007-10-30 08:42:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Shlongy (user info) at 2007-10-30 08:37:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I make it less confusing by not liking anyone, regardless of race, creed, color or bank account.
Unless, you have a nice, shiny vagina. Then, you're OK in Shlongy's book.
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A "shiny" vagina?
Submitted by Shlongy (user info) at 2007-10-30 08:37:59 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I make it less confusing by not liking anyone, regardless of race, creed, color or bank account.
Unless, you have a nice, shiny vagina. Then, you're OK in Shlongy's book.
Submitted by EmissionImpossible (user info) at 2007-10-30 08:35:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
I dont think you should hate based on race, I just hate a little bit about everyone and that works out fine.
Submitted by gravitas (user info) at 2007-10-30 08:33:45 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
The blacks and whites in rural south Georgia are getting along relatively well since they both hate the latinos. I'm surprised the race war hasn't turned more physical down here. It will.
I however am in graduate school so the only people I come in contact with are chinese and indians. They're making me racist.
Submitted by EmissionImpossible (user info) at 2007-10-30 08:31:55 EDT (#)
Ranki