Wars without Objectives can't be Won (864 hits)
Category: Politics -> IraqRating: 0.16 on 22 reviews (Rate this item) (V)
Submitted by sword (View user info) at 2007-05-05 08:37:40 EDT
Trillions of dollars and thousands of lives have been invested and expended in the war in Iraq and I have to ask why? What have we gained from this expense?
I don't mean this to be a rhetorical question to suggest the futility or ill guided nature of the war, I ask only with an honest desire for knowledge.
If the United States were to play the insurgents in Iraq in a game of capture the flag I believe our numerical, technological, logistical and equipment advantages would allow us to win easily. We could capture the Iraqi flag and move it back to our base with ease. If our goal were something like capturing Saddam's palace or blowing up some military bases we would be able to accomplish it easily.
Instead our goal is apparently more nebulous, we seem to have the aim of stopping violence in Iraq and this goal is not something we should reasonably expect to be feasible. What I mean is, short of stationing our armed forces their indefinitely how can we expect to enforce any sort of lasting peace in Iraq?
The violence in Iraq stems from ideological differences between two different groups of people who live in roughly the same place. Will we accomplish victory in Iraq once we teach everyone in both these groups to accept other people's view points and to get along with their fellow man? This might be a long time coming.
Sometimes the plan of having Iraq train and maintain its own security force is trotted out as an objective and yet it seems obvious that America is not really trying to accomplish this. How long have American forces been in relative control of Iraq? Four years? How long exactly does it take to train a security force? American armed forces don't train for four years and ostensibly they are being trained by the same organization that is in Iraq. If the American military can train U.S. citizens to do a job in 15 weeks why can't they train Iraqi citizens to do a similar job in four years? Are we lacking the money to pay the Iraqis? Do we not have enough qualified instructors? Clearly the will to train them is not there or else there are not enough Iraqis who want the training.
If we aren't giving Iraq its own security force which certainly seems a laudable though fairly simple task what are we doing there? What is our goal and how do we win this war? Well, why we don't just leave Iraq immediately?
The downside to leaving Iraq immediately is that the unstable situation caused by the destruction of their previous government will result in a bloody civil war without U.S. forces to prevent it. Is this why we are their then? To stop a civil war?
Another oft stated goal in Iraq is to give the Iraqi people freedom. How do we give them freedom without letting them kill each other? How do we win in Iraq? Teach everyone to love each other? Kill off all the members of one faction? Leave our troops there forever? None of these are acceptable or rational plans.
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" is a flawed moral principle that is the driving force behind maintaining an armed presence in Iraq. The idea that resources should be distributed based off of need is fundamentally flawed because it creates a system that rewards need and punishes ability.
An especially able individual under this system would be required to give more; an especially needy person would be given more. By rewarding need individual's who want more resources are taught to forsake ability and become needy. This philosophy creates a society of people who minimize ability and maximize need.
By stationing our army in Iraq we are following that flawed moral ideal on a global level. We are giving our resources to the people who have the most need and this is a mistake because it will create a system wherein need is rewarded and therefore more need is created. By employing our ability to prevent violence in Iraq all we do is increase demand for our ability. Nothing is gained; nothing is changed except our resources are depleted at an increasing rate.
Iraq will never secure itself so long as we are doing that job for it.
Fredrick Douglass was a slave in the American South who eventually became free and a famous abolitionist and philosopher. Towards the end of his career as a slave he said of slavery "Whoever expects to succeed in whipping me must first kill me." A different phrasing of the same principle is the state motto of New Hampshire "Live free or die."
Freedom is not a right granted to everyone at birth. As Douglass knew and as our founding fathers knew, freedom is something that must be purchased and the coin to purchase freedom is a willingness to fight and die for it. The American people are free because the Americans of the past were unwilling to live any other way.
This is how freedom is obtained, by being willing to die in defense of it. Freedom is not something that another culture can accomplish for you. Until the Iraqis are willing to fight and die for their freedom they will forever be enslaved.
The continued presence of our military does not give them freedom, not if the individual Iraqi is not willing to claim it. Until our troops leave the people of Iraq will have no chance at obtaining freedom.
A withdraw of our forces from Iraq might start a civil war but if the Iraqi people are desirous enough of freedom it will also secure for them and their children something worth more then life itself.
Ultimately, our position in Iraq is untenable. Political momentum against the war there is rising; our troops will be coming home sooner or later. Our goals are obscure and unachievable and our interests best served by withdraw. The only intelligent decision is an immediate end to the American Military presence in Iraq.
User Reviews
Submitted by Wildman (user info) at 2007-05-12 06:10:53 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
The bottom line is you just don't have enough years behind you to understand how things really work
Submitted by Wildman (user info) at 2007-05-12 06:06:58 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by FartSmeller (user info) at 2007-05-07 09:53:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
...you really don't know what's happening in Iraq-which prompted your question and you're simply asking the question out of some sense of...misguided outrage.
........Together it makes for a shitty post.
<...edited>
***
You need to practice independent thought by reading and listening between the lines of what you read in the newspapers and see on tv
PBS with series like Nightline will help you to the next level but the final step to awareness requires you to figure out the things and forces that are at work. Things that NOONE, anywhere in the world, will outline for you or put in print or video for you to simply regurgitate.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2007-05-12 05:35:31 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Didn't read it. I'm drunk. I'm an excellent typist. And speller.
Submitted by JonnyX (user info) at 2007-05-07 17:02:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
"No one ever won a war by dying for his country. You win a war by making the other son-of-a-bitch die for HIS country."
-George S. Patton
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2007-05-07 16:40:52 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
yup.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-05-07 12:58:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
you wanted a war, finish it
Submitted by FartSmeller (user info) at 2007-05-07 09:53:08 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
Either you really don't know what's happening in Iraq-which prompted your question-or you're simply asking the question out of some sense of irony and misguided outrage.
Either way, it makes for a shitty post.
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2007-05-07 08:47:26 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
What Flack said.
Submitted by TheUniter (user info) at 2007-05-06 12:29:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
Submitted by Fartman (user info) at 2007-05-06 11:24:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2007-05-05 13:09:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
LT Obvious is hereby appointed the rank of Captain.
Submitted by Flack (user info) at 2007-05-05 23:45:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
While I applaud your reasoning on this issue, let me give you a sense of how it works from somebody who has been there and seen it with his own eyes:
"Sometimes the plan of having Iraq train and maintain its own security force is trotted out as an objective and yet it seems obvious that America is not really trying to accomplish this. How long have American forces been in relative control of Iraq? Four years? How long exactly does it take to train a security force? American armed forces don't train for four years and ostensibly they are being trained by the same organization that is in Iraq. If the American military can train U.S. citizens to do a job in 15 weeks why can't they train Iraqi citizens to do a similar job in four years? Are we lacking the money to pay the Iraqis? Do we not have enough qualified instructors? Clearly the will to train them is not there or else there are not enough Iraqis who want the training.
If we aren't giving Iraq its own security force which certainly seems a laudable though fairly simple task what are we doing there? What is our goal and how do we win this war? Well, why we don't just leave Iraq immediately?"
The problem with the Iraqi security forces stems from the same theological and cultural problems with the entire country itself. Remeber, these are uneducated, underdeveloped, and impovershed people that only joined the ING/ICDC/et.al to collect a paycheck to somewhat improve their already worthless lives. Alot of them, most of them from rural areas, don't understand and have a hard time comprehending things like communications, vehicle repair, logistics, etc. They think that being in the Armed Forces means all they have to do is kill people and collect a check, which is not what its all about. It doesnt help when you have Shia, Sunni, and Kurd all working in the same squad or platoon, whilst hating eachother due to longstanding tribal differences.
Now I'm not saying that ALL of the Iraqi military personnel are like this. I have met many during my time over there that I was proud to fight along side of, but those guys are few and far between. ALot of them can't even read the Koran, let alone try to comprehend finding and identifying points on a military map. Alot of them are used to riding donkeys and herding sheep, not operating russian armored vehicles and/or crew served weapons.
The language barrier also makes training these guys a difficult task. Even throwing fluent english speaking translators in the mix can get confusing at times. Also, with a brand new force, that means brand new leaders. Im talking about farmers and truck drivers who know NOTHING about the law of war or tactical manuevers into a senior officer position or Sergent Major.
Eventually these guys will get it right. But you cant really expect to build an entire Army with farmers and shepards and expect it to be a technically and tactically proficient fighting force within the span of only a few years.
Good post btw.
Submitted by Wildman (user info) at 2007-05-05 22:13:24 EDT (#)
Ranking: -1
I don't want to pay $10 a gallon for gas and have the money go to Muslim Solders of God.
Submitted by goferforhire (user info) at 2007-05-05 17:15:25 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
You missed a step- wars without *opponents* can't be won.
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2007-05-05 17:08:55 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by sword (user info) at 2007-05-05 16:41:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Foolproof
Nothing is a better critique of a position then to claim it is obvious.
Detect sarcasm there? The position is not obvious at all, some people quite obviously still believe remaining in Iraq is a good and required thing, this is written as an argument against that.
I am sorry if you... agree with me, but this was an attempt to define my thoughts on the subject and persuade people who don't agree with me. With whom, we can well imagine, this position is not too obvious.
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The obvious need not be stated.
I prefer the "sit back and laugh at the clown that caught himself on fire while playing with gasoline and matches" approach.
Submitted by Zebra (user info) at 2007-05-05 16:54:14 EDT (#)
Ranking: 1
Nothing wrong with offering a thoughtful opinion without rancor.
Submitted by sword (user info) at 2007-05-05 16:41:21 EDT (#)
Ranking: 0
Foolproof
Nothing is a better critique of a position then to claim it is obvious.
Detect sarcasm there? The position is not obvious at all, some people quite obviously still believe remaining in Iraq is a good and required thing, this is written as an argument against that.
I am sorry if you... agree with me, but this was an attempt to define my thoughts on the subject and persuade people who don't agree with me. With whom, we can well imagine, this position is not too obvious.
Submitted by greEn_uGly (user info) at 2007-05-05 14:45:11 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
OMG!! YOU ARE RIGHT!!
Submitted by Foolproof (user info) at 2007-05-05 13:09:16 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
I am officially promoting you!
LT Obvious is hereby appointed the rank of Captain.
*applause*
Submitted by Bubba2341 (user info) at 2007-05-05 12:10:56 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Information? Ancient.
Punctuation? All wrong.
Writing ability? Meh.
Submitted by sicosemen (user info) at 2007-05-05 11:04:34 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Beer..................................Check
Sports................................Check
Submitted by kaos-king (user info) at 2007-05-05 10:26:38 EDT (#)
Ranking: 2
I'm... I'm sorry.
I got about 4 paragraphs into this and completely zoned out.
I'm sure it was quite good.
Have fun with Heat...
Submitted by HurtByTheSun (user info) at 2007-05-05 09:19:09 EDT (#)
Ranking: -2
Saturday is for beer and sports. Don't bother.